So mad I could spit nails!

The BBQ Pit
1

You’d think by now I’d know better than to get my hopes up where the local school district is concerned.

You’d think.

So thanks, PrincipalMan for letting us get our hopes up and then smashing them right into the dorking dirt. You made us think that, come the end of the year, Slim would be retained in his current grade level due to not being ready socially/maturity-wise/emotionally for the next grade. But nope, you’re telling us that those reasons AREN"T GOOD ENOUGH for you so you’re going to promote him anyway. You think that the teacher (whoever that ends up being, IDK yet obviously) is going to “build a core team of kids” around Slim to help him with his work, help keep him focused, etc. Not that being moved to NewSchool was your fault, PrincipalMan( that’s the district’s fault for redrawing the attendance zones) but I HAD that in place at OldSchool and when he got moved it got blown to freaking bits. I HAD a core group of kids (Slim’s pack of “girlfriends”), a few of whom had been with Slim since they were all in the same 4 y.o. class in PreK. And you know what? I felt guilty as hell because I felt like maybe I was asking too much of these girls. I really did.

PrincipalMan has also told us that getting Slim transferred back to OldSchool (which I feel is better suited to his needs) is a no-go as well. The district won’t allow it. Which annoys the living daylights out of me. NewSchool puts technology over all and has Ipod touches so the teachers can Tweet from the classroom. Why? IDK. Because they forking can, I suppose.

PrincipalMan also doesn’t believe in Content Mastery (where the kids go to get away from the distractions of the classroom and/or individual tutoring)…he thinks that it does more harm to the kids who need it than it does them good.:smack: REALLY? So it does my kid more harm than good to get out of the classroom when he’s having a meltdown from sensory overload and can’t do his work because he can’t focus due to all the distractions? REALLY?

Ugh. I hate public school. I really do. DH is drinking the koolaid right now but I’m not. I never have, because I grew up in a poor district and I’ve seen how they can run right the heck over you if you let them.

Private, charter or homeschooling is not an option for cost reasons as well as I don’t have the skills nor the patience for homeschooling. I just don’t. And I know that. So I have to trust the public school to do their best for my kiddo.

The ONLY thing that PrincipalMan has said so far that I agree with is that he wants the school’s whatever–psychologist maybe? Diagnostician? to test Slim for Asperger’s (which by this point we’re pretty sure he’s an Aspie, though not officially diagnosed by anyone) so that we can go to his dr’s this summer when we take him in for his annual visit and go “This is what the school said. Can we get an appt with your in house specialist to do further testing and get an official diagnosis on this?” so we get it solid.

URGH! I am so mad right now I want to spit nails. I really do.

2

I thought Slim was making good grades?

I know he has special needs, but you’re wanting to hold him back a year based on maturity level? I’ve heard of that being done for kids in the kindergarten, but not anyone older than that.

Maybe the principal agreed to go along with it at first because the idea blind-sided him, and now that he has a chance to think it over, he’s decided it’s really not a good idea. Like, he’s imagining the chaos if every parent demanded this for their kid. Or the fact that holding someone back a year may actually hurt them emotionally rather than help them. Or the fact that your son will be bored out of his mind with the classwork and end up being disruptive. Or the fact that the school already has services to help him with the social/emotional stuff, and by requesting these services AND demanding he be held back, you’re going a little overboard for someone who is academically fine.

Of course, I’m sure I’m wrong. I usually am whenever I weigh into matters like this.

3

He is…but that’s only because he’s incredibly smart. He is just not ready, emotionally or maturity-wise, to be in 3rd grade.

Per his IEP, they aren’t working on social/emotional stuff really. His IEP is more for the speech issues he’s had since he started speaking as well as for the physical/occupational-type issues he’s had forever due to the low muscle tone thing he’s got going on.

There are other academic issues also, which he’d have a chance to work on more if he were held back. His comprehension in a lot of areas isn’t where it needs to be. He MEMORIZES things but he doesn’t quite comprehend them the way he should, according to his teacher.

Another issue is his handwriting…he’s not been diagnosed with Dysgraphia and I don’t know for sure that’s what the issue IS but his handwriting is (and always has been) terrible. I don’t know that when he gets to the end of 3rd grade and has to take the state testing (I think they’re calling it STAAR or something now) he’ll be able to pass because they won’t be able to read his writing.

4

It’s traditional to complain about things after they go wrong. Look, you seem to be extremely involved in your child’s education, and that’s a good thing, but you also seem to be angry about changes based solely on the fact that they are changes. Your kid is doing fine; if things stop working, then it’s time to start being angry.

Most non-autistic kids don’t comprehend half the stuff they’re taught in second grade. Relax.

5

Third-grade teacher checking in. I am not your teacher, consult a teacher in your own district for advice, etc. :wink:

He’s got an IEP, that’s great. Have you officially requested, in writing, that he be evaluated for exceptional children services? If you’re feeling frustrated, I’d recommend being sure you’ve got a good paper trail: you don’t want the principal to be able to drop the ball anywhere along the way. If I were you, I’d also request another IEP meeting ASAP, and before (and at) that meeting, be very clear that you are concerned about the emotional/social and comprehension issues and would like to see those addressed.

That said, retaining someone a grade level for social reasons sounds odd to me. Your district may have (and definitely should have) a policy in place regarding retention. If a student is attending school adequately, and is making proper academic progress, there may not be a path to retention. And it’s not something I’d recommend, either: if he already knows the academic material adequately, reviewing that material for another year seems likely to lead to more behavioral problems, not fewer.

As for poor handwriting–how poor is it, exactly? This is an area where you need to trust your teacher. You’re an expert in your child, but the teacher is an expert in the curriculum. I’ve seen plenty of second- and third-graders (especially boys) who are brilliant but whose handwriting is very rough to read. One of our job skills is a near-superhuman ability to read chicken scratch :). I assume that the readers for your state test have a similar ability. If all that’s happening is that your son uses capitals and lowercase letters indiscriminately, forgets to put spaces between words, spells horribly, and wanders off the lines as he’s writing, then I’d relax (a bit): we teachers know that kids at this age often run into difficulties in these areas, and we work with them bit by bit to replace those bad habits with good ones.

Best of luck!

6

I am aware of two cases of this, although I’m no expert. In both cases, it did more harm than good. If they’re trying to make him into some gigolo, then they should improve his social skills. If they’re trying to make a scholar of him, then leave it up to the school.

7

Two things:

  1. This is a job for Yeticus Rex. Seriously: Doper networking is called for; Yeticus and his wife are parents of a kid with severe autism and have been through the mill on these sorts of issues. He also runs a NFP business that aids special-needs kids. It’s probably not proper for me to volunteer him, but it’s a resource you should tap for any help they can be.

  2. Typically, school administrators encounter dozens of parents of kids who have All These Problems and Need Special Consideration – in the eyes of the parent, not necessarily of any halfway objective third party. They learn to discount the greater share of parent-raised issues, reacting only to the ones that are either pushed or thoroughly documented.

I am not accusing you of being that sort of parent; from what I’ve seen in your threads, you have a good handle on what Slim needs and does not need and how best to cope with those needs. What I’m saying is two things: (A) You need to be sure that Mr. Principal Man does not see you as that sort of helicopter parent; and (B) You need to do everything in your power to document Slim’s needs, in terms of professional assessments of his issues and his personal educational needs.

That’s not very easy on low income/lack of community support. But there are ways… Do local churches have people who know the ins of the local education system, and could give you some support, guidance, or an evaluation? Are there NFP agencies in town that could help in one way or another? It can’t hurt to check them out.

Best of luck.

8

I got held back for social skills and resented it deeply for many years. It doesn’t matter why, the kids don’t listen and it’s a humiliating stigma anyway. Maybe third grade won’t bother him as much (I got held back in fifth grade).

9

Kids are a lot more resilient than we give them credit for. I was undiagnosed, bored, frustrated, under-challenged (and picked on) in elementary school.

I turned out fine. And if I think back, those problems* were minor… compared to the fun I had.

*It was the 60s-- my parents would’ve been up in arms about how I was treated, but they were oblivious. Nobody–teachers, administration–worried about ‘that kid that’s a little Not Quite Normal’.
But I think I prefer it that way. I had to learn to cope on my own.

Not to trivialize your concerns, but it might help you to know that with or without support systems, Slim will grow up. Most probably into a happy, healthy adult.

10

Husbandface had a meeting with PrincipalMan yesterday for that very reason..to discuss these kinds of things. Unfortunately, PrincipalMan has got Husbandface drinking the KoolAid.
Or maybe I’m just being too much of a damn helicopter right now..I’m not sure which. I know I have helicopter-y tendencies and I’m working on that. It’s REALLY hard for me to see Slim struggle with his comprehension (esp where math is concerned because I suffer from a math-based learning disorder myself and I KNOW that frustration really well) and social skills. Skills I suck at also because I tend to be a bit of a recluse (long story, that).

They do and there is room for some exemptions to that policy which I think we should get. It is my opinion (and I’m not a teacher, just his mom) that the ONLY reason Slim is doing so well academically is his incredible ability to memorize everything.

I should scan in one of his homework papers..if you’re not familiar with his writing (and sometimes even if you are) it’s virtually unreadable. Letters are wildly different sizes, improperly formed in some cases and he can’t even fit a three or four word sentance on one line (regular notebook paper sized in this case) without having it “blocked out” (lines draw so that it resembles graph paper) for him because he has NO idea of proper sizing/spacing. On certain class work sheets and tests, they actually take him out of the room and scribe his answers for him because you can’t read it otherwise.

I don’t know if I’m coming off as too helicopter-y or not. I’m in constant contact with his teacher, justr so I can keep up with what’s going on in the classroom and his behavior, etc.

11

If I were your husband, I’d be absolutely furious at this description. Is your husband so contemptible that he can’t have a respectable difference of opinion with you? Rather than characterizing him as “drinking the KoolAid,” implying that he’s got the intellectual and moral fortitude of a suicidal cultist, how about suggesting that, “after the meeting with the principal, my husband found that the principal presented compelling evidence and arguments for not retaining our son”?

When I was a kid, there weren’t scribes for tests. However, there was OT, and I received OT for handwriting. I remember clearly the day I argued with my therapist over the formation of the cursive “f”. I insisted that my totally stupid and illegible way of making an “f” was just my personal style. God, I was a brat.

Two possible solutions for this problem:

  1. My mom made me spend some money on a small electric typewriter. The modern equivalent of this solution, I think, would be to get a small keyboard (this one, maybe? I don’t know) and teach him keyboarding skills.
  2. Our school system teaches handwriting using the Handwriting Without Tears books, and they’re quite good. You could get these on your own (it looks like it’s $7.75 for a single workbook) and use it with him to improve his handwriting.

I definitely don’t want to minimize your or his problems. However, when you’re finding yourself characterizing your life’s partner as “drinking the KoolAid,” it may be time to take a step back and reassess your own commitment to your position.

I don’t know if I’m coming off as too helicopter-y or not. I’m in constant contact with his teacher, justr so I can keep up with what’s going on in the classroom and his behavior, etc.
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12

Sincere question, because I don’t know anything about this stuff. You’ve listed two conditions that you suspect your son has, but which remain undiagnosed. Why? Is it because such diagnoses are truly elusive, or are you reluctant to test him and thus “label” him (which is something I could understand as well)?

It just seems to me that the more you know for certain about Slim’s issue(s), the better equipped everybody will be to give him the support he deserves.

You’ve been dealt a challenging hand. I wish you all the best.

13

I’ve been led to believe Asperger’s is a particular bitch to diagnose because it requires a considerable amount of subjective input from a shrink. They develop that through a lot of interaction with the patient and in the end come up with something along the lines of, “You know, this looks a lot like…” If you look up the descriptors for Asperger’s, just about anyone you can think of meets the criteria at least some of the time–it’s just not the sort of thing where, after five minutes, the Shrink goes, “AHA! The kid’s an Aspie! No question about it!” For that reason, and probably a bunch of others, it’s not an easy diagnosis to bag. Shrink time doesn’t come cheap.

Absolutely unrelated to anything else: OP, stop it with “Husbandface” and “Kool Aid”. Turning into mama bear and viewing your husband as someone outside of your camp is the fast track to a destroyed marriage. Pick at each other’s brains diligently and relentlessly. Communicate even if, and especially when, it’s uncomfortable. Raising Slim in a broken home will add a level of suck to this situation that you don’t even want to think about. There may be nothing you can do to fix your son, but there’s a lot you can do to fuck his shit up. Letting the stress he brings to your household come between you and your partner is one such thing. I’m not a shrink or a marriage counsellor, but the disrespect implied by those terms suggests to me you and your guy need to make each other a priority if you ever plan to help your kid.

Oh, and I really, really wish you well and encourage you to post here–normal kids are challenging enough.

14

The realities are that a public school system cannot hold back too many kids. They need to get them out of the system in as few years as possible since each year will cost them more.

I went through the same thing with my little guy. He started in SK and it was obvious that he couldn’t even handle the JK stuff. But they HAD TO make him do the SK stuff since he was IN SK.

The very day he started, I started a campaign to have him held back in SK for an additional year and not move on to grade one. The teacher was totally on board, the psychologists and special ed teachers were in agreement. Things were going well.

Until April when they had their ‘placement meeting.’

The principal called me and said that he was being promoted to grade one with a ‘specialized program.’ I didn’t get angry but I asked if she had listened to everyone else and if she had talked to my son. She HAD heard the other teachers and professionals but hadn’t met my son. She thought that they were being ‘overprotective’ since my son was ‘such a nice kid’ (which, of course, he is but that is beside the point).

I asked for her to reconsider before the final placement meeting in May and asked to attend the meeting. She agreed. I also asked that she sit down with my son for a few minutes so she could see what the others were talking about. She was hesitant but said she would at least sit in on his classroom.

I went in for the meeting and, lo and behold, the principal had met my son and done an about-face. She went on to say that there was no way this kid would be successful in grade one (well, no shit) but that given the progress he was making another year in SK should resolve that.

Now, granted, my kid was behind academically, socially and developmentally. He was also a December baby when the cut off for each year was in January (meaning he was the youngest in his class).

He went through a second year of SK and is now in grade one. He isn’t the best student in his class but he isn’t the worst, either. He looks and acts like everyone in his class. It is the perfect age group for him.

(Please note that I have abridged a lot of this. I had to take him to a variety of both doctors and educational specialists to get a ton of documentation on both his current abilities and his developmental progression. It was a six-month project. Luckily, I was not working at the time or I would never have been able to get together enough supporting documentation.)

15

Why do you discount the value of memorization in early education? You memorize your multiplication tables, word spellings, names/events/dates for history… I really don’t see how holding him back is going to help him. He already knows this stuff and is making excellent grades. Holding him back is going to make him repeat all the material he already knows, which is going to lead to boredom, and he’ll act up even more.

Socialization is really not about what goes on inside the classroom. It’s about recess and sports and play time. I think you should consider more extracurricular activities as an alternative to adding an entire year to his education.

16

So, a kid who is doing ok academically, but is behind socially, you are intending to hold back so he will be known as “the stupid kid who failed third grade” (kids have such understanding and are so kind) and you think that this might help him socially?

My daughter had one of those in her class. She was the oldest in her elementary school class except for this kid. My sample size is one, but her classmate had to move to lose the stigma of having been held back. I have my doubts this will accomplish what you think it will.

17

Yes. With all due respect, you are being too helicoptery right now. It’s okay, most of us have been there. It’s a good thing when you can recognize it, realize that this isn’t about you, and take a deep breath and step back.

Okay, logic time now. Who would be the best choice to teach Slim math and social skills? Would it be someone who admits she struggles with math and social skills, or would it be a father, teacher or principal who doesn’t struggle with math and social skills? Are you willing to do the really fucking hard thing and NOT jump in, if there’s a better teacher available for your son in these subjects?

Needing to manage him isn’t about helping him, it’s about alleviating your own anxiety. Stop putting your anxiety before your son.

And for the most common curricula in America, this is entirely appropriate for his age level. Memorizing the fundamental facts comes before synthesis and analysis. We could start a whole 'nother thread on whether or not this *should *be, but the fact is that right now it is. So it sounds like he’s right on track.

Not a bad idea. I’d be willing to take a gander and see how similar it is to my daughter’s and her classmates’ writing.

I think you mentioned this twice in one post because you know that yes, you are being too helicoptery right now. And again, it’s okay, it happens, but you’ve got to stop that now. What helped me stop that was a book called Parenting With Love and Logic. My mother - a literal award winning teacher - liked the classroom management version of it so much that she recommended the parenting one to me when my son was really struggling in school. It taught me how to teach my son how to solve his own problems, and more importantly, taught me how to recognize when something is my problem, and when it’s my kid’s problem.

And, for the love of your child, read this again:

You’ve got to be a team here. Please.

18

Kids who are behind in math get explicit instruction in the concepts that elude them: I break out the manipulatives, the coins and the blocks, and work very slowly with them to get them to see how the math works. Kids who are behind in handwriting get explicit instructions in how to shape the top of the “h”, the bottom of the “p”, the curve of the “r”.

If he’s behind socially, consider giving him very explicit instruction in social skills.

19

We’re planning on having the school do their ASD testing closer to the end of the year so we can go to his dr this summer when we take him in for his annual well-check (or whatever they call it..they used to call them checkups). The reason we’ve held off on having him tested for Dysgraphia is because from what I understand (and please, forgive me if I’m way off) people who truly have Dysgraphia NEVER get better at handwriting no matter how hard they try or how much they practice. Slim has improved slightly every year since he started preK at 3 1/2 but it’s still nowhere near where his classmates are.

I do the best I can…I’m not terribly skilled in the social graces myself but I do the best I can. I teach him what I can and we do spend an awful lot of time when he’s NOT in school at the library for storytime, at a local park, at the subdivision swimming pool in the summer.

If we could afford it, believe me I’d do that. But most of the sports-type things around here are at least $100 a month if not more which is totally out of our budget.

20

And Jeezuz Fucking Christ, learn to curse properly!