And COP does not stand for constable on patrol. It is short for copper, as in copper buttons worn by the earliest cops.
Entering the premises legally is not a defense to trespass. If the cop received a legal order to leave from the owner of the house, and he failed to do so, then he was trespassing. You may not believe that the order was legal, but I said “the situation as described is trespassing”. While there may be additional informmation which explains why it was not legal, on the basis of the OP the order was legal.
Matt: I think you’ve been whooshed.
I think you just might be mistaken, The Ryan. Please explain to a layman, me, how an order issued in order to assist someone evade lawful pursuit of law enforcement authorities is lawful. I would imagine that such an order would, itself, be a crime.
First, please explain to me how an order issued after a person has been caught would help someone evade pursuit.
Interfering with the Lawful Performance of a Police Officer’s Duties.
But, then, that’s just my best guess.
Your turn.
Um… BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
With that out of my system, the facts are that the suspect exited the house into the back yard, where he was arrested. Under those facts, the police are entitled to conduct a search incident to arrest without a separate search warrant. Nor may the homeowner evade the search by ordering the police to leave under threat of trespass. Nor is it trespass at all; trespass is the entry or continued presence on the real property of another without legal authority or permission. The execution of a search warrant, arrest warrant, search incident to arrest, administrative inspection, and community caretaking are some of the legal authorities that permit an entry or presence without permission of the owner.
So… no, The Ryan, you’re wrong.
- Rick
I still think the officer should get written up,because he was asked for his name,and badge number,and he did not supply either peice of information. In the towns I have lived in,it is regulation/S.O.P. that if an officer is asked for this information,he HAS to provide it. A citizen has the legal right to challenge the apparent validity of a policeman’s badge. There are people who pretend to be cops,to pull scams and such,and this is why the rule was made. Also,there are situations where the person may be unable to read the officer’s badge,for instance if the person is blind. I think the officer’s supervisor should hear of the refusal to identify himself,and that the officer should get a reprimand.
As for the rest of it,I agree with the others who have said that being beligerent to an officer of the law was unwise. I can understand that you would be upset,if the guy really was making an ass of himself. You could have phrased your irritation more eloquently. Maybe he has been reprimanded for being insensitive before,and this is why he did not supply his identifying numbers? Public relations is part of the job,if you are a police officer. Yeah,the cops are human,but they ARE held to a higher standard when in uniform. My dad’s good friend told me once “I’m a PEACE officer,I work on keeping the peace,not breaking it.” I think both cop,and citizen could have controlled their belligerence better.
Monty: was that intended as an answer to my question? Because I don’t see how it’s relevent (besides being a sentence fragment).
Bricker: the OP made no mention of a search. I therefore stand by my original assertion that “the situation as described is trespassing.” [emphasis added for the reading impaired]
Is it your idea, The Ryan, that immediately upon entering the home, the officer must begin searching, perhaps wearing a sandwich board that says, “I AM CONDUCTING A SEARCH INCIDENT TO ARREST,” and ringing a handbell?
The situation in the OP is NOT trespass, because under the facts in the OP, the officer has legal authority to be in the home. Presence on the real property of another under legal authority is not trespass. Period.
Included in the procedure to conduct a warrantless search under those circumstances is the legal authority to secure the premises. Officers may briefly restrain others in the area. They may await the arrival of backup. They may stand around while other officers complete these tasks. None of this delay converts the legally authorized presence of the officer into trespass.
I grant that at some extreme end, an officer’s presence may become a trespass. Hours after the suspect is carted away and the search completed, if the cop is in your Barcalounger with chips and a beer watching The Sopranos, after being ordered to leave, I agree we might get to trespass.
But the situation as described (heh heh heh) is by no means trespass.
- Rick
I just think it’s really sad that so many posters think that L.A. “got off easy” wrt his fuck off. As if the cop somehow has the right to hassle, threaten, or arrest a person for mouthing off. No wonder so many people hate cops, apparently they are free to wield their considerable power against innocent people who irritate them.
You should know full well that is not only intended as an answer, it is a valid answer. Can you honestly state that you’ve never in your life provided only the portion of a sentence which constitutes the answer?
Copper badges, ot buttons, matt_mcl. 30 lashes with a wet noodle for you!
Well, Cheesesteak, I think you really need to live in the real world instead of in the Teenage Fantasy Land where you can tell the pigs to fuck off without consequences. Being insulting to people in a position of power over you is just dumb, and that doesn’t have a thing to do with the person doing something illegal (like beating the crap out of him). Did Ashtar have anything else suspicious going on? Quite possibly, the cops could simply quite legitimately arrest him for something (drugs, underage drinking, accomplice to something his brother did, assisting a fugitive in flight), hell in some areas telling someone to ‘fuck off’ consititutes assault, so you might just have assault on a police officer right there. And what about his brother? Telling the cops to fuck off is not exactly going to cause them to have a lot of sympathy for him either, so he might not get a break he otherwise would have gotten.
And don’t think it’s just cops; if you’re an asshole to the guy auditing your department for ISO compliance, the guy who handles user accounts, the guy who handles returns at the store, your landlord, the guy who you now want to borrow something from, or anyone else, they’ll go out of their way to notice irregularities, put you at the bottom of the list, and otherwise make your life miserable back. It’s just stupidity in action.
Frankly, between Lord Ashtar’s boasting about the Fuck Off, ranting about consititutional rights without being able to show the violation(s), and unwillingness to provide details, I strongly suspect that his involvement in this was less innocent than he’s letting on.
So a cop has the right to remain in a private residence, not merely to perform a search, but in anticipation of a search? If that is the basis of your position, you should have stated that from the beginning, instead of bringing up irrelevancies such as the legality of the entrance.
Monty: I honestly don’t see how it’s an answer. I have indeed provided a portion of a sentence that constitutes an answer. And when the questioner implies that the that is not satisfactory, I clarify with the full statement. Even if the OP was “Interfering with the Lawful Performance of a Police Officer’s Duties” (and I don’t see how, unless the cop has such little will that another person telling him to leave causes a compulsion for him to comply), I don’t see how that would help anyone evade pursuit. The OP said that his brother was already in custody.
Riboflavin, I don’t live in fantasy land, asshole, I live in the United States, where I supposedly have freedom of speech. You know, the idea that I can speak my mind without fear of prosecution from the government? I just think that our public servants shouldn’t use the power we give them to intimidate us into treating them like royalty. Cops deserve respect because they’re doing a good job under difficult circumstances, not because our failure to respect them will get us in trouble.
Certainly no cop needs to give a rude person a break, like he might do for a polite person, but the implication here is that the cop will turn around, and find something to bust him on, rather than just go about his business. That’s nonsense, the public must now be frightened into compliance, because a cop can make their world hell.
It is exactly this type of abuse of power that makes people hate cops. The very idea that I, a free citizen of this country, must genuflect to the police in order to avoid trouble, is absolutely sickening.
The Ryan: Surely you see the difference between merely caught and being caught and then transported to the jail.
I should, eh?
I’ll have to watch that.
Yeah, but if his brother was caught outside the house, then presumably the cop standing around in the house isn’t going to help transport the guy to jail. Collect evidence to convict he guy? Maybe. But transport him? I don’t see how.
Q: How many cops does it take to transport a guy to jail?
A: Three; one to put the handcuffs on, one to drive the car, and another to stand around in the suspect’s borther’s house doing nothing.
I don’t get it.
I didn’t get that they were saying the cop has the “right” to do any of those things, just that one shouldn’t take a chance that he might. I think it’s good advice to avoid saying “fuck off” to anyone who is carrying weapons.
That much is clear.
Two or three more to secure the house and prevent the destruction or removal of evidence before a search. One or two more to temporarily restrain the other people in the house for the officers’ safety while a search is conducted. Two or three more to search the yard and anywhere along the flight path where the suspect may have discarded evidence.
One of the things that cops are trained to do is meet a situation with overwhleming force. If a suspect flees, it’s much better to have four or five cops available to put the handcuffs on when he’s caught. This isn’t a game; the odds between crook and cops don’t have to be fair.
I hope that clears the facts behind your up your counting joke, which really was absolutely hilarious.
- Rick