As a matter of fact, despite what you might read on other forums, I do have all ten of my toes. While it’s true that I DID have a nasty ulcer on one of them, it didn’t need to be amputated. Come on now, a lot of the stuff you read on the other forums is either things that have been twisted beyond all recognition, or just plain made up.
If you have a boner for me, why don’t you start a new thread, rather than hijacking this one? I can’t guarantee that I’ll respond to that thread, but I think that I won’t respond to any more hijacks from you in this thread.
My nominally Catholic father is still slightly disturbed by my husbands atheism - and we’ve been married almost twenty years. It is just the way it is.
It’s funny that a lot of the defenders on the parents’ side keep focusing on the Chinese food (pretending that’s an act of kindness as opposed to-y’know-feeding the child they brought into this world). Then also ignoring this part:
[QUOTE=SeanHallam]
they made a scene in front of my siblings as to warn them that all poor sinners like me will go to hell and then they kicked me out of the house during the time they were at church
[/QUOTE]
HOWEVER, Catholic dogma also states in Catechism 1782 **Man has the right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral decisions. "He must not be forced to act contrary to his conscience. Nor must he be prevented from acting according to his conscience, especially in religious matters."53 **
So, for the OP, show this to your parents, explain that while you understand that if their belief is strong enough that it will condemn you to Hell, that the Catholic church also provides every man the right to act in conscience ESPECIALLY in religious matters and in good conscience, you cannot lie to your parents or the church by claiming to believe in something you do not.
I mean no offense, but I just don’t understand (having had no real exposure to the Catholic or even Christian tradition–other than living in the US all my life). How can a young man who doesn’t believe in god spend a year on the “confirmation process,” even if only for the presents? Maybe I’m missing something. Isn’t belief in god one of the requirements? Maybe it’s less strict than that, and it’s more of a welcoming into the fellowship kind of ceremony. If your son is willing to go, I certainly have no objection, but I’d worry a bit that what he’s learning about religion is that it’s no big deal to lie to the Priest and congregation if necessary to avoid rocking the boat.
ETA: It does confirm my suspicion that a sizable minority of church goers are closet atheists.
No offense taken. Well, it’s not like they started the process off with a multiple choice test (“Do you believe in God? Yes/No”). He went through the confirmation process because he’s of an age to do so, and he chose to participate in it. If he had decided not to be confirmed, we wouldn’t have pressured him about it. No one would have been upset whatever his decision had been; there was no boat to be rocked. He professed loudly all through it that he was only bothering because of the presents, but my hope is that he got something out of it all that he can think over as he matures.
One of the things that I most like about Catholicism is that there is no requirement to turn off your brain before you walk into a church. There was no point at which he lied to anyone; he’s been upfront with my husband and me from the start. Our friend the deacon knows how he feels. It’s not a bit shocking deal.
I remember going through my own crisis of faith when I was a few years older than my son is now. There were times when I didn’t know if I believed in God or not. I believe in God now, and I also believe that an untested belief is worth exactly nothing. I’m not threatened by my son’s spiritual journey, and I won’t be bothered wherever he goes with it.
If the parents are nudists, do they have the right, in your eyes, to force their kids to be naked at home and go to nudist colonies?
What is your opinion on those Christian Science parents who let their children go without vaccinations and die without medical care because they think god will cure them?
This is interesting. Are Catholic kids these days asked in any serious manner by people in the churxh whether they actually believe the religious teaching they’ve been fed for years? Whether they really want to be inducted in some more official manor as a nominal adult, but shold feel free to say, “No thnks, I’m looking for something else for my spiritual needs.”?
Because I never got the least sense of choice when I was a kid going through that. There was an explanation of why I was accepting of God and his rituals as an “adult”, but not even a hint that there was any choice in the matter.
*Okay, so I was 18 and my buddy was being hustled at pool, and wouldn’t listen to me when I said “you’re being hustled at pool”. So I wandered off onto the street full of sin, and saw a sign that said “free doughnuts”. It was a while ago, so I’m pretty sure we still used extraneous consonants. Anyway, I go in, and get a cup of coffee and a doughnut, and this guy asks if I want to play checkers, and I “sure”.
So, there we are playing checkers and this other dude walks up and asks if I’ve heard the word. I say “No, I don’t think so, but I’m playing checkers now.” The checkers dude say’s no, it’s cool, this is more important, so I go into this wee little room and the second dude pulls out a massive freaking bible and starts to read me stuff. I conclude that this is much less fun than checkers, and I decide I want out. I look at the bible, and there is the interpretation written in the margins in red ink, upside down from my perspective, but still readable. So when he reads out this passage and asks me what I think, I allow as to how Jesus is the Lion* in the passage etc., and give back the marginal interpretation. He looks at me funny and says “Oh, you have heard the word”, so I say “yes, sure, you bet” and take off without finishing my checkers game.
My friend is outside, and has in the meantime been cleaned out, so we go home.
*Might have been Revelation 5:5, although that seems an odd choice for converting people. Still, this was in North Carolina, so it could have been worse.
When I went through Confirmation, I wasn’t ever explicitly asked about my beliefs. I had to write a letter to our bishop explaining, among other things, why I was continuing the process. He must’ve had a terrible time reading those because there’s only so many ways 8th grade kids can say “'cause my Mom and Dad are making me.”
I do remember being told once or twice that this was, while not ‘optional,’ something you should be sure of your faith and beliefs about before you went through with it. There wasn’t a real emphasis on that, however, and I didn’t pay much attention to it at the time.
Regarding the OP, I’m in sort-of the same position, though my situation is a bit different. I’ve been living with my parents over the summer (after college graduation, before reporting to my duty station), and they’re both fairly religious. Over the past 8-ish years (basically since Confirmation) I’ve gone from being a cafeteria Catholic, to a lapsed Catholic, to a former Catholic settling somewhere along the atheist/agnostic spectrum. I haven’t brought this up to my parents A) because it hasn’t come up and B) because I don’t want to deal with it during the last time I’m going to see my parents for any large amount of time. I’ve attended Mass with them a few times (and not taken the Eucharist - questions were raised) and I’ve not gone to Mass with them a few times. I suppose technically that’s “living a lie,” but there are no real positive outcomes to the alternative - just drama and possibly bad feeling.
I could be mis-reading the situation entirely, so if I am, forgive me. I just don’t see anything tangible here to complain about. Annoying definitely, but you’re not being shipped out to boot/Jesus camp nor are they siccing the Inquisition on you. If there was more to the story or a history of intolerance (actual intolerance, not just general “all Xtians hate all atheists!”) I’d certainly say you need to push back hard, but I’m just not seeing it.
When I told my dad (at age 12) I wasn’t going to attend church any more, he gave me the worst beating of my life. I really wish I had suggested Chinese food in a bag as an alternative.
I was raised in one Christian denomination(Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, very conservative), and now am Episcopalian. I remember when I was taking classes for the latter I liked what the provost(the bishop’s assistant) said “Being Episcopal means you don’t have to check your brains as the door.”
I never went through the rebellious, non-religious phase so many do, like the OP, but I’m sure my dad would have found a clever way to deal with me. I’m told that I was obnoxious when I was four, and when first put in Sunday School, it went like this. Dad, the son of a minister himself, took me out. Instead of whacking me he told me “OK, you don’t have to go to Sunday School. In fact, I’m not going to*** let*** you go to Sunday School. You’ll never get to be in the Christmas program or do the fun things.” Good old reverse psychology, and after that I went with no fuss.
Maybe Chinese food would have worked if I’d been older.
Damn, that’s awful! I’m sorry you had to go through that.
I was actually one of the catechists who co-led one of the groups of kids preparing for confirmation last year (not the group that my son was in; boy does that ever not work after a certain age), and while we did ask everyone in the first session why they wanted to be confirmed, it was more aimed at underlying the point that they absolutely did not need to do it unless it was their own choice than at making them prove that they deserved to be there. “For the potential presents and because it seems like the thing to do now” was the clear subtext in most cases, but honestly, so what? They were there, and their being game about taking part in it all meant being able to have the most interesting discussions with them about all sorts of things.
I’m absolutely sure that there’s a huge amount of variation from community to community and from family to family. One reason I like our parish so much is that the emphasis is much more on building togetherness and community than on asking. “So where do you stand on Transsubstantiation?”
It’d be nice if Lynn would explain what she meant by that, although I think she just wanted to use it as a segue to talk about the ulcer on her foot (so gross, nobody needs to over share like that).
What’shisface brought up the toe issue, not me. What I meant was that whatshisface has a habit of following people around in threads, and bringing up old issues from other threads, apparently because he doesn’t seem to contribute much else that I can see.
And if you have an issue, again, go ahead and start a new thread. I won’t guarantee that I’ll respond there, but it’s better than endlessly hijacking this thread.
