… and I have no clue on how to get him started. the soon to be 13 year old has expressed a strong interest in learning how to build computers from the ground up, then program them. He is a gamer, and has a naturally curious and scientific/ mathematical mind that is driving this, and he gets super fanboy-ish when we have an excuse to go to MicroCenter. His gaming interests range from Call of Duty to Bloodborne to Zelda to MarioKart, and he was a Minecrafter for a long while, but seems to have largely grown out of that.
We have asked about classes through them, and they don’t really have anything, although they do seem to have some beginner kits that you can buy. So with his birthday coming up in early September, I was thinking that may be an opportunity to get him something that will help him learn what he wants to do. But again, I am not savvy when it comes to this, so I am asking the Dope for knowledge. If anyone could lend some ideas on where to get started, whether it be by buying pieces and parts, books, youtube sites, kits, etc., I would certainly appreciate it!
“Building” a computer isn’t really all that arcane–plugging in many of the components is little different than inserting a cartilage in an old Atari 2600/Sega/etc console–shoving a card edge of metal pins into a slot of metal pins. The main technical challenge is being careful–careful not to short out something with static electricity, careful not to bend and break a pin, etc. The other challenge is knowing what you want your computer to be like and taking the time to pick the components that fit your needs–first you choose a CPU–that constrains you in the type of motherboards you can use (they have to have a socket for that type of CPU) and the RAM (the motherboard has to have sockets for that RAM and your CPU supports only specific types of memory.) Then you have to pick out a hard drive. Modern motherboards have sound, video, and networking built in, so you don’t need to add any other cards unless you are a heavy gamer or something. A good place to pick components is www.pricewatch.com. (You will note for instance all of the CPUs available–I didn’t say choosing components doesn’t involve a lot of studying.)
Last summer, I built my own PC for the then-new WoW expansion. It was my first build, though I was already a little familiar with basic PC parts and how to install them.
I did research first in a few WoW forums to find out what grade components I’d need. I was only going to use this PC for WoW and minor web browsing, and I wanted the game to run on Ultra settings, but I was willing to compromise with High. During this time, I kept my budget in mind, which was $1k max. I also researched terminology that was new to me, like SSDs.
As a noob to the process, I found PCPartPicker to be extremely helpful, listing the parts I needed, telling me if the parts were compatible with one another, and showing me several places where I could buy the components I chose. I ended up getting most of my stuff from Amazon and NewEgg.
Once I had my components, it took me about 2 hours to put everything together. Thankfully, I did not fry my processor or drop my video card. POSTed successfully on the first try, and been smooth ever since.
3: Choosing a budget, the best parts that will fit that budget and slapping the items together per the videos.
It’s like building a Lego set, it’s not arcane knowledge that requires classes. It is helpful to have someone experienced guide you so you don’t mangle inserting the CPU or other delicate tasks but it’s not mission critical.
There is a sense of accomplishment in doing this but it’s really just an oversized plug and play assembly scenario and is hardly considered a complex technical “skill” these days. It is a good project for father and son. You can learn together.
It seems to me that the hobbyist market is shifting away from PCs and more toward microcontrollers, robotics, 3-D printing, those sorts of things.
As for where to learn, you might check and see if there’s any sort of makerspace in your area. There’s an excellent one near me that has classes on electronics and programming topics. I’'m not sure how good they be for kids, but they might be able to point you in the right direction.
See if your city has any sort of computer recycling companies. Goodwill sometimes have computer stores. You may be able to have him volunteer there helping to tear down and rebuild computers.
Building computers isn’t really all that interesting. He may think it’ll be more exciting than it is. He may be envisioning creating computer chips from scratch, but it’s more like assembling Ikea furniture. Put the cards in the right place, hook up the cables to the indicated slots, and turn it on. I wouldn’t make too much of an investment in the computer building part since it’s not likely to hold his interest very long.
But computer programming can be a lot of fun. There are likely many programming summer camps in your area for kids just like him. Find ones focused on game design. And the folks there will likely also be able to answer any questions about computer building as well.
Yeah, personally I’d go the Arduino plus a bunch of basic components route. I’ve built a gaming PC and it was a whole lot more of an exercise in budget management and shopping list maintenance than anything involving knowing how a computer works. You can get your hands dirty building and programming circuitry on an Arduino or similar in about 10 minutes. Very satisfying.
What kind of computer does he have right now? If he needs a computer, it would be best to get a laptop rather than desktop computer. And laptops can’t really be built by users, since they have a lot of tiny, custom components.
If he’s just curious about desktop computers, a discount/refurbished computer shop will likely have pallets of desktops for $50 or so. He can treat it as a kit, open it up, take it apart, put it back together, etc. But if he wants to do programming, it would be better to get him a laptop since the portability of the laptop will be very beneficial. It wouldn’t really be worth it for him to build a nicely equipped desktop, since it will cost a lot and won’t be as overall useful as a comparable laptop.
Heh, my 17yo builds gaming machines, and we just went to Microcenter two weekends ago for upgrade parts. He grew up around it, but does all his own research online for price, compatibility and benchmarks.
Gaming systems require a fast CPU, lotsa RAM, a beefy video card and a larger-than-average power supply for the tower (modular is nice so you can store all the extra cables you don’t need).
His interest developed backwards from console gaming (i.e. Xbox) to PC (personal computer) gaming. Taking a look at the minimum, as well as recommended/ideal, system requirements for his favorite games is a good start to a shopping list. The games will tell you how much they need of what to run at the right frame rate (frames per second, for smooth graphics).
This is a decent article with many videos included.
Be prepared for sticker shock. My son just spent $170 on a gaming keyboard on last trip to Microcenter (see also $90 gaming mouse, $450 video card, etc.). I can get a wireless keyboard/mouse combo at same store for $20, for comparison. He earns his money and gets a lot of bang for his buck, so I just grin and bear it.
He also started out upgrading an old system one part at a time, swapping parts or inheriting parts from his local IRL gaming buddies. It’s good to have a friend with deep pockets on the bleeding edge, so you can inherit their “old, slow” components when they upgrade.
Thanks everyone, this is great advice, and the reason I threw myself on the mercy of the Dope. He’s 12 right now, has his own laptop (a budget special ASUS i think, nothing special), and a PS4. It sounds like the actual assembly isn’t nearly the complex undertaking that I thought it was (and maybe used to be), but after looking at components in the past, I can see where this can get pricey quickly.
On the coding side, is there one language that is better than another to start with, and aside from a camp, what’s the best way to get going on this side?
Thirding that. I built a computer, perhaps ten or fifteen years ago, and it’s not very difficult. But at the same time, you don’t really learn much by doing so. Some people think you can save money by doing this, but I don’t think so, especially not if you’re buying all of the parts brand-new. The people who build computers commercially are buying components in vast quantities, getting them volume discounts that you will not be able to match.
Now if you’re upgrading an existing computer rather than building one from scratch, you can of course save money, because you already own some of the components.
You don’t need to be so concerned about languages right now. There’s lots of websites out there that help kids to code games in a visual way. Tynker is one I know of. There are many others. You link together various modules to program your own game. Some of them also help you make your own mods for other games like Minecraft. They often also help teach other languages like javascript and python along the way.
When I built mine seven years ago, it wasn’t to save money but to get the balance I wanted, not what someone else decided.
Plus, no bloatware and the operating system on an actual physical disk, not a partition on the hard drive.
I understand your point, but it doesn’t contradict my statement about not saving money by building your own system.
And if you want to avoid bloatware with a commercial PC, you could just wipe the drive as soon as you turn it on and install the OS from scratch. I did so on my current computer recently (mostly to deploy a new SSD) and Windows 10 found all of the drivers it needed on its own. In the past, after installing the OS, it was necessary to download the drivers for all of the components manually.
While it won’t turn your son into Hephaestus at the Silicon Forge, if he’s going to get a desktop computer anyway, I’d certainly encourage him to research and build one himself. No, it’s not especially difficult (until something goes wrong) but there’s no better way to feel comfortable in the future upgrading and switching stuff around than to have built the system from the ground up in the first place. There is some stuff to consider about taking precautions (static), going slow and troubleshooting any issues. Planning a computer (and within a budget) puts your brain to use in determining which parts are necessary for what you want, where you don’t need “the best”, why X is better than Y, etc. Plus it’s been scientifically proven by science that it’s more fun to play games on a system you planned and built with your own hands.
Plus, it’s a great first step on the road to owning a million spare components “in case I need them” until you get to the point where you’re building a second spare computer out of outcast parts just 'cause you can.
Also a good choice, especially for someone more interested in the coding side of things. But one of the things I appreciate about the Arduino platform is that you can buy them dirt cheap (a couple bucks a pop for a Nano clone) so you aren’t in a bind if you want to build a project for long term use. Raspberry Pis are just expensive enough that I’m less likely to want to dedicate one to some superfluous but fun project.
I use a laptop now, but we still have a desktop. For the longest time, I had a desktop in an old metal case that I kept upgrading.
If he has a desktop now, I would figure out what he has in it, in regard to size or CPU, power wattage, RAM capacity, etc., and in particular, what kind of video slot it has. Then, since he likes gaming, take him to a store, and get the best video card they have that is compatible, and maybe some more RAM.
Putting them in the computer is not hard, really, it’s difficult to do wrong. After he does that, he can go online and download the latest driver for the videocard. If it comes with a disk, run it just to make it work, then go to the site for the maker and download updates.
The video for his games will be crazy better, and that will be very satisfying.
Whoever suggested programmer camp is on the money, but the good ones are probably full by now. If there is a technical school nearby, they might have classes for teens.
