How about** Single Mom, Cancer Survivor, Impaled by Skydiving Rapist; Cell Phone Provider Refuses to Cancel Contract.
**
Hey screw the hijack, I just don’t want our only land route walled off, this is in pure self-interest.
Thanks
You son of a bitch. I woke my kid up laughing at this.
Howdy, fucko, I thought this would be an intelligent discussion about if it is better to lie on a background for adoption or to stay true to my beliefs. I had comments to make about the US being a free country and the god of Abraham being accepted by silence. Since I see that you have nothing good to contribute to that discussion, I would invite you to fuck yourself. You know, with that mangled appendage you call a dick?
For those that have an IQ better than five I would add that on the applications that I have filled out, all have asked the name of the pastor/priest/reverend of the church that I attend. I can’t lie about that can I? Especially when we did the whole RO about the girl that lied and said her dad died in Iraq. Is that the best way to bring a child into my home?
Another thought, Zambini57, when you look through your book of higher power, let me know the passage that says to love, honor, and lie about a god. Also, why do you suggest Mormons? Is it because you think that is also a lie? Many of them believe just as strongly in their faith as us atheists.
When social services shows up to do a post-placement interview, should I tell the child to lie? Should I say that the god the social service people believe in is like Santa Clause?
Ah, fuck it I have wasted to much time feeding the troll.
SSG Schwartz
Go with the flow, dickhead. It has nothing to do with pride. It has a lot to do with who I am. If you can sleep at night knowing that you live a lie, fine. If you are not from “fucking Mars” maybe you realize that we live somewhere with tolerance. The same Amendment to the US Constitution that gives you the freedom to tell me that it is my “goddamn” pride that keeps me from adopting a child is the same one that allows me to not have a god.
SSG Schwartz
In fairness, you could claim to believe in God, but that you don’t attend a church. Not that I’m arguing that you should lie, of course.
This is very likely the ONLY way to bring a child into your home. We told our social worker the truth, and she said flat out “I can’t write atheist on the homestudy, you will never get a child.” This is pretty darn liberal Minnesota working with a nationally reputed secular agency - one that was even placing children with gay people. Fortunately, she was honest and open minded, or it would have been over then.
As an adoptive parent married to an atheist - really, there are churches out there that would accept you. Yeah, I think its stupid you’d need to “fudge” what you are - but that is something that sometimes needs to be done when adopting. When asked in a homestudy about your sex life you say “its healthy and I am happy with it” then you spouse answers similarly (and it isn’t unlikely to be asked about your sex life) not “we have an open marriage and are both bisexual” even if its true. When asked about your family and friends you say “they’ve been wonderfully supportive of our decision to adopt” and you don’t mention that your Uncle Bill is a sheet wearing racist who thinks that you getting a biracial child may mean the end of the world - after all, the only time you need to put up with Uncle Bill is Christmas Eve for two hours - and Grandma is getting old and then you’ll never see him again. You clean your house - and take the cat with litterbox avoidance and board him at the vet because cat shit on the floor is a no no. When you do a homestudy - all marriages are healthy, all homes are clean, all relatives are supportive, and all people are at least ‘spiritual.’
The Unitarian Church IS welcoming of atheists - and you don’t need to become a regular churchgoer. I would suggest you visit one, talk to the minister. (Note that they vary, I have a social awareness congregation - some spirituality, very little God, lots of sermons on social justice - other congregations swing Christian or Pagan - depends on the minister). Then pull and resubmit your application with the name of a congregation and a pastor. Yeah, its stupid, but there are a lot of stupid things you’ll do for the sake of your child, a lot of little white lies you’ll tell to your child or the world - this will be the first.
Is this fair or right? No. But there is no legal right to adopt a child, children are placed after a homestudy and evaluation of the home. And its a subjective touchy feely thing. Like a job interview, no one is ever going to say you weren’t picked for the job because you were Black, they’ll just say there was a ‘more qualified’ candidate. So you’d better learn to be as “white” as possible.
Easier and more truthful to call your local Unitarian Church and join. They’ll have you - lack of Theism and all. And there isn’t any sort of requirement to actually show up to be Unitarian. Now you haven’t lied, nor have you compromised your beliefs (or lack thereof).
I think I’ve mentioned this here before, but around 15 years or so ago I was a Boy Scout leader. When the council got a new president she noticed that I had failed to sign the part of the oath dealing with the declaration of religious principle. I told her that the previous leader and I had simply agreed to overlook that, but she refused to, and suggested I lie. I think her position was that as an atheist I was going to hell anyway, so what’s the harm? I’m paraphrasing here, but that was the main point.
I refused to do that, and she threw me out. The troop ended up disbanded because there was a shortage of volunteers. So, I guess a lose-lose, but they kept their organization doctrinally pure. I just wish they’d been able to keep the pedophiles out.
Sounds like a great start for a civil suit, and while NJ isn’t precedent for MN, it might be useful.
Unless the social worker was an agent of the state, a civil suit here is unlikely.
The sad part is that Dangerosa et. al. weren’t injured by this, because (1) they didn’t identify as atheists and so were not denied a child because of their atheism, and (2) all the state really has to do is provide one alternate legitimate reason for denying them. I’m not sure how sovereign immunity might play into that either, but one way or the other, it’s a tough thing to prove, clear-cut as it might sound.
There exists a lingering bias against atheists because of some inarticulable notion that if atheists don’t have a set of commandments, then they have no moral code whatsoever. It’s ridiculous, especially when “fear of the law” works just fine (without any mention of fear of gods) as a state interest when defining the criminal law, but there you have it.
It’s getting better (I think), but it’s still there. If I have my way, it’ll be less so for my kids’ generation if not eliminated.
This has got me thinking. Maybe they have a point.
Now hear me out. The idea here is that you’re about to be a new parent, and like any new parent you’re going to be a bit “out to sea” on many things about child rearing. Being part of a church group means that you have a sort of support group to help you out. You can seek out advice from the minister, deacons, other parents, and so forth. You have a source of potential babysitters whenever you need a night off. That sort of thing.
So it’s not really about religion, per se, it’s about having a community available to help you out when you need it. Perhaps the Unitarians are the way to go here, as suggested above, as that would provide you with that community without having to pretend to believe something you don’t.
Anyway, it’s just a thought.
We were also adopting from Korea, who has its own standards on adoption. While enforcing religious freedom via a lawsuit probably wouldn’t work, but at least you’d have a case, with domestic adoption - it wouldn’t apply at all in our case - nor in any case of international adoption. Since we weren’t interested in domestic at all - would have been moot.
Oh, and useful to whom?
In Minnesota almost ALL domestic adoptions of infants are open adoptions - or they are done through the foster care system when the mother has been declared unfit almost immediately. Open adoptions the birthmother chooses, she can’t be made to ignore religion - that’s sort of the point of her choosing. Foster care adoption wasn’t something we were interested in - its years here between placement and the parental rights being terminated, and during that time birthmom has access to her child and we are supposed to be facilitating a reconstruction of the family - a worthy goal, but not a game I’m playing in an attempt to get a child.
What she said was accurate, she could have filed the homestudy with atheist on it - but the chances we’d have gotten picked by a birthmother in a domestic adoption would have been nil. We would have been ineligible for many international adoptions (not all, China certainly wouldn’t have cared, but Korea does - and that was the program we had interest in). She would have approved the homestudy, but we’d never had gotten a match - not with the programs we were interested in. An approved homestudy is all well and good, but its the MATCH that is the tough part - the thing that sometimes never happens.
Adoption agencies are generally private (ours was) - they can choose to work with you or not. Some actually will only handle Christian couples (Bethany is huge and I believe will only work with Protestant Christian couples). There is no requirement for a private agency to work with an atheist. There are cases of having no agency involvement - you can hire a licensed social worker to do your homestudy independant of an agency, find your own birthparent, and get through the process without an agency - I know people who have done that (usually relative or acquaintence adoptions - someone’s 15 year old cousin gets pregnant and they adopt).
Not to say that it’s not easier to get a placement if you say you’re religious, but I have to believe that at least some mothers would prefer an atheist. If I were giving up a child and had to chose between two otherwise identical families, I would take a declared non-church family over the church one every time.
Some mothers probably do. Unfortunately, many of the women that don’t choose abortion are fairly religious - and want their child raised in a religious household. Fairly high correlation - so while you can put atheist down in your profile - it isn’t likely to be a successful strategy. Its actually one of the reasons we went international - our profile did not at all fit the “dear birthmother” standard. And there are lots of potential parents in those books.
Now, strange things happen. I went through adoption classes with a couple who were adopting from … can’t remember - but it was international. Before they got their referral, they got a call from the agency. They had a birthmother who was Jewish looking for a Jewish home - and no Jewish parents in their parents book. The agency looked through waiting couples in their other programs and made a few phone calls to see if the Jewish families would allow this birthmother to consider them. The birthmother was shown a few profiles, and picked the couple we’d known. Had the birthmother wanted a lesbian couple or an atheist couple, the same sort of effort probably would have been made (we had a fairly liberal agency).
(I also know several people who adopted a child and several years later got a call from the agency to see if they’d consider adopting a bio sibling or half sibling.)
Dan Savage (the advice columnist) and his partner Terry adopted a little boy, so it happens that people who don’t fit the profile get chosen. His book about the process is one of the best adoption books I’ve ever read.
What a stupid title.
It’s much too long. 
It’s not ‘lingering’, it’s the norm. Socially, atheists are pretty much at the bottom.
Considering that in the past here on the SDMB people have claimed that atheists face no discrimination in America, I find this thread amusing, as well as depressing.
I meant that any legal arguments raised by either side would make good study for anyone writing a brief even if the case were argued in a different state’s court system.
Thanks all for the suggestions and I will keep them in mind. It is good to see some positive come out of this. I will admit I was just a bit angry when I made my last post, but I will keep the idea of the Unitarian church in mind. I hate to sacrifice my values, but if I can do it for a good purpose, maybe I will have to rethink them. Anyway, thanks for the suggestions.
SSG Schwartz