Never heard of the first two, and am vaguely aware of the third, but I don’t frequent radical sites of any stripe.
Issue at hand: This is an interesting thread, despite the derailment attempts. I’ve often pondered the meaning of ‘hero’ and agree it’s way overused and becoming meaningless in large part.
I’ve also thought a lot about McCain over the years and about the ‘hero’ sobriquet being applied to him. His behavior in the POW camp certainly showed grit, determination and leadership in the face of continued torture and deprivation. This is what is expected of American military members who are captured, and is part of the American Soldier’s Creed. Some succeed at it better than others. I don’t know how I, as a career military vet, would have fared in the same situation, and so I respect what he did.
Does his bravery under torture rise to the level of heroism? Perhaps in conjunction with other actions in his Navy time, ‘hero’ is appropriate. On its own, I have my doubts. I haven’t read the citations for his DFC and Silver Star awards, so can’t speak to other events outside of his captivity. There’s no doubt in my mind that he’s a survivor of the first order. It wasn’t fall-on-a-grenade-rush-into-withering-enemy-fire-to-retrieve-wounded-comrades heroics, certainly. To the civilian population, who cannot imagine going through his ordeal, he is certainly a hero. Those who served in combat may not be so quick to apply the label.
As with all things, people may believe as they wish, and I don’t have a quarrel with this particular non-issue. It certainly doesn’t seem to require a long thread of thinly-disguised vitriol.
I have to agree completely with your definition. Yes, some soldiers who bravely go into combat are killed in the first 30 seconds. Still makes them heroes for doing it. Some survive and succeed in some dangerous missions, are eventually shot down, and held in captivity for 5.5 years. Still heroes.
And some are in just the right spot at just the right time, and incredible lucky, and manage to slaughter hundreds or thousands of enemy soldiers, or save dozens of friendly lives. Those guys are also heroes - but “rambo” soldiers who pull off something like that would not be able to accomplish what they do without the soldiers to the left and right of them who were there as well.
This reminds me of the video game world of tanks, where sometimes a single player can kill 6 tanks. (there are 8 tanks on the enemy team). Generally, this is impossible unless the other players in the game damaged the enemy vehicles first and soaked some hits for you so that you get a chance to make the shots. I know that a video game != real combat in any way, I’m just using it as an example of how the player who gets the highest score isn’t solely responsible for the win.
You know who isn’t a war hero? Someone who uses deferments to get out of going to war at all, or someone who gets themselves into a job that will not involve any risk.
Frankly, I can’t blame someone for doing that - the Vietnam war was a meat grinder that accomplished nothing - but people who didn’t go don’t have the right to say someone else who went into danger isn’t a hero.
I don’t know if McCain is a hero but his actions as a POW were heroic. He volunteered for combat operations and that certainly requires courage but not necessarily heroism. I doubt McCain would say of himself “I’m a hero.” But he can certainly say “I didn’t avoid service.” To that he could append, “unlike Trump.”
McCain might be a “hero;” Trump is certainly an “asshole.”
I suppose, but one piece of research (a single interview) does not a “research piece” make, at least not in my mind. It was an interesting interview about a guy who doesn’t seem particularly trustworthy to me. I saw nothing from the writers that indicates they did or did not believe his story.
This has been settled long ago, and you’re wrong. It was a war. Veterans have “veteran of war” status. Injuries are recorded as war injuries. Congress passed an authorization bill, that has the same legal status as a declaration of war.
For shuck’s sake, we flew B-52s and dropped bombs on their capital city. What fantasy makes you imagine that wasn’t a war?
This is absurd Freeper nonsense that needs to be shouted down when it pops up. (Next you’ll say the Civil War was about states’ rights, not slavery.)
This board is supposed to fight ignorance, not perpetuate it. You think it wasn’t a war? Were you there? Do you ever do any research before you post nonsense? I challenge anyone who thinks like this to visit “The Wall” in Washington. If it doesn’t move you to tears, then you’re not human.
I think calling everyone who is ever in a combat situation a hero (a) waters the term down excessively, and (b) leads to the sort of bullshit cheap near-worship of the military we have today, where we ask veterans to stand at the beginning of a ballgame so we can recognize them and thank them *en masse *for their service.
ETA: War or police action? It’s like the tired old joke, "How many legs does a dog have, if you call a tail a leg? (The answer is: four - calling a tail a leg doesn’t make it one.)
[li]National Order of Vietnam: was considered the highest honor that could be bestowed upon an individual by the Republic of Vietnam government[/li][/QUOTE]
Just watching with interest. Not going to take sides. Semantic debate.
McCain is a Commander of the National Order of Vietnam. Not the “highest honor”, mid level award. The award was given to political and staff-officer people, so in general it recognises something other than personal heroism. His other Vietnamese award looks more interesting – it’s a unit citation for Gallantry? Does anyone know what that was for?
Maybe he has it, maybe he doesn’t. A lot of guys, in response to comments like yours, self-medicated rather than seek help.
Or what friedo said.
Who? DU I’ve heard of, though never read. I have no idea about the others.
On the other hand, Trump is the leading candidate for the Republicans. He may not shape opinions, since he seems to be parroting existing opinions, but by saying them from his position of authority he tells those people that it’s okay to think like that.
McCain came back from Vietnam and discovered that his wife, who had stuck by him and waited for his return, had lost some of her physical appeal. So he dumped her for a trophy wife.
Since his pathetic campaign for president, McCain has spent virtually every Sunday morning with the television talking heads, whining about each and every thing Obama does or tries to do. Lousy pilot, cooperative POW, rotten husband, adulterer, poor loser. That’s John McCain. He may be your hero, but he sure as hell isn’t mine.
He displayed some heroism while in captivity. It doesn’t require a lot of analysis of how much heroism there was because it was an infinitely greater amount than Trump has ever displayed at any time in his life.
McCain’s service doesn’t qualify him any more for President than anyone else, but he certainly deserves respect from Americans for his acts of courage and leadership while in captivity, and Trump deserves derision for his comments.
If McCain was a “hero”, then Josef Mengele (possibly the most despicable “human being” to have disgraced this earth) was a hero as well, since he undertook some pretty brave actions during his Eastern Front service (including saving the crew of a burning tank which was above and beyond the call of duty).
McCain was a career Navy officer. What he did was nothing more than his duty. He seems to have undertaken and fulfilled his duty in some rather trying circumstances (to day the least) for which he is rightly commended, but a “hero”? Come on.
Trump is still a talking castrated penis though.
I am no fan of McCain the politician, but I have nothing but respect for his service. For a piece of shit like Trump to call in to question his service is disgusting.