Isn’t Zen a synthesis of Buddhism and Taoism?
Oh.
So Lao-Tzu was a “false teacher who had no enlightenment but wanted fame, respect, and followers.”?
I wonder how much else of what he said was “bullshit”?
Seriously- lighten up. “Those who say…” isn’t meant to be a hostile challenge or slapdown. For example, see Post #52 for a more gentle interpretation.
I just love the way that any Christianity thread will get moved from IMHO to GD because it degenerates into witnessing, while any Buddhism thread will move the other way.
That’s great Zsofia, I’m glad they got back to you. Good luck with the orientation. I hope you find it interesting.
Not really. It probably adopted some Taoist ideas, but all Buddhism in China did that. It was supposedly introduced to China by an Indian monk called Bodhidharma, but in its origins, it’s a synthesis of various Buddhist schools.
I too am looking forward to a report on your experience, Zsofia!
“The Tao is in dung.”
– Chuang Tzu
I’ve always employed either shikanataza or visualization exercise* methods while meditating, and the whole point of meditation for me is to have time to practice just being in the moment so that it becomes more effortless.
(*This is more of an “inner travel experience” thing or a pre-game/challenge exercise; the point is to either work through a concept or to visualize success as a preemptive measure before a major challenge/event. It’s more of a “get the nervous jitters out” thing than anything else.)
This is a good philosophy to have in general-- any practice of Buddhism, meditation, or philosophical leanings have to be adapted to your needs in order to be effective. The same goes for physical activities (sports, yoga, martial arts, etc.): if you cannot comfortably perform a move as directed, you are not likely to master it, and thus adapting the movement to suit your physical needs will help you achieve mastery of the concept behind the movement. In my limited experience with yoga and martial arts, there has been a great emphasis on employing your strengths and adaptation to your own needs-- some poses/moves may have to be modified until your body is capable of achieving the “goal” pose/move. It may never be mastered as the original move, though, as sometimes the limitation is a permanent physical issue.
For people like me with a wandering, restless mind, having a philosophy that boils down to “keep things simple and in perspective” is important. It makes life less complicated, especially when things get hectic.
I am not a Buddhist, but I have engaged in activities that are traditionally steeped in Zen philosophy as part of the training, and it has helped me in ways similar to what you are seeking out of Zen Buddhist meditation. All of the above quotes really explain the major aspect of what one wants to get out of Zen style meditation-- it’s about being in the moment and experiencing that moment for itself. The goal [for me at least] is to make these moments easier to get to so that you can experience them in everyday moments and put forth a more objective viewpoint when things get stressful and complicated. I employ this sort of focus when doing exercise, as it makes the moves more accurate, fluid and enjoyable than when I’ve got other things on my mind-- getting to the point where exercise is escapism from the other things you have to do is an important part of enjoying exercise, and it can become a very zen experience.
Like any other philosophical/religious movement, Zen is what you make of it. You can dig deep or you can not dig deep; it’s up to you to decide what is right for you.
I’m still hung up on the “one hand clapping” koan thing.
I don’t think pinworms are exactly the best example to prove your point. The traditional Buddhist response to a medical problem is to take medicine to deal with it. Traditionally Buddhism has recognized the importance of the “Four Requisites”: Food, Clothing, Shelter, and Medicine as being an essential prerequisite to following the Noble Eightfold Path.
The trick is to punch yourself in the face.
I never said that and I’ll thank you not to put words in my mouth.
As our Unca Cecil has taught us, even the greatest teachers can be wrong now and then.
You’re welcome.
Please disregard my first reply. (“You’re welcome.”)
It just dawned on me that I misinterpreted your “false teachers” comment. Given the context, I thought you were attributing “Those who say…” to such people; After re-reading your statement, I realize that’s not at all what you were saying.
So I did put words in your mouth, and sincerely apologize.
By the way and for what it’s worth, the single greatest lesson I’ve learned from life is neatly summed up in my favorite “Words Of Wisdom” quote:
“Remember that not getting what you want is sometimes a wonderful stroke of luck.”
spoken by The Dalai Lama.
Yes, but he might have been wrong about that.
I think the problem here is one of translation. The oldest recorded Buddhist writings are written in Pali, and the word that he uses is Dukkha, which has a must vaster scope than the English term “suffering.” It’d be more accurate to translate it as “unsatisfactoriness.” Also, the Buddha didn’t say that life is only Dukkha or even primarily Dukkha, just that it exists and should be recognized and understood.
I cringe when I hear the First Noble Truth translated as “Life as suffering” because it’s virtually guaranteed to convey the wrong impression to those unfamiliar with Buddhism. I prefer to state it as “Unsatisfactoriness exists in life.”
The doctrine of anatta or “not self” is pretty difficult to convey in a single reasonable sized post, but I’ll do my best.
What we think of as our self is not a static thing, it’s a constantly changing process consisting of form (our physical body), feelings, perceptions, mental formations, and consciousness. Buddhists call these the Five Aggregates, or Skandhas. To the extent that we cling to the aggregates, we cause ourselves suffering. For example, if we’re attached to being young and beautiful we’ll be pretty miserable as the passage of time ages the body. Or if we identify our job as being who we are, we’ll suffer a great deal if we lose the job.
Not self doesn’t mean that self is non-existent, it’s more like a tool used to avoid clinging to things. I’m reminded of what Tyler Durden said in Fight Club: “You are not your job, or how much money you have in the bank!”
I can tell you more than just a bit about it; I can tell you every single thing there is to know about Zen. A koan:
Everything anyone can know about Zen is bullshit. Zen is not bullshit.
How can I trust you that Zen is not bullshit, when all I see are words?
Okay, I went to my orientation yesterday, which I thought was quite good. Lot of talking, went through the basics of sitting and what to expect from services, etc.
It’s quietly hilarious, though - you think you’re such an educated person and that you’ve grown out of your parents’ prejudices and that the South is not a cultural backwater and you’re living proof, and then you go downstairs to the daylight basement of this nice suburban house and there smack in the middle of the floor there’s a HEATHEN IDOL and your brain just cannot get over it. Seriously, the front of your brain is respectfully learning how to do all this stuff and the back of your brain which is still a good Presbyterian brain stem is all “You’re kidding, right? Look at that! It’s… it’s tacky, is what it is! Good god, it’s almost Catholic!” Which is definitely not what I thought I’d have trouble with.
You also don’t realize what a cultural gift you receive by being brought up in a specific religion - you acquire without really noticing an encyclopedic knowledge of its scriptures, etiquette, behavior, theology, and a billion other things you don’t even realize that you use. When you try to set foot in a completely different religion that originates on the other side of the world you’re shocked at how alien it is and how much you feel at sea. It’s going to be very hard for me to decide to go to a service, because essentially it’s signing up for a couple hours of being a bumbling moron.
I had a very hard time with the sitting, not because of the meditation itself but physically - if I sit cross legged on a cushion, my back screams because my overall shitty daily posture has made it weak and feeble. On a seiza bench, my feet fall asleep and my ankles howl. It’s going to take quite a bit of practice to be able to do either for 35 or 45 minutes, which is what you have to be able to do for the services.
At any rate, I’m planning on going forward with it. (And of course if I weren’t such a “do it tomorrow” dilettante, I’d have sat this morning.)
What Mr. Brigg has to say on the subject is that when Zen Buddhism is stripped of it’s religious trappings, you find that Zen is pretty much Tao Quietism.
Carry on olivesmarch4th, nice work.