One of the things that came out of the Chris Hardwick debacle is that, while nobody came forward with additional allegations of abuse, some of his coworkers responded, “Glad someone is finally speaking up! That guy is a dick.” Nerdist was all too happy to distance themselves from him, even if they did eventually reinstate him.
It just makes it difficult to see him in the same light. I’m not gonna lie, I had him up on a pedestal. More fool I.
As for Azari, he addressed the issue, thoughtfully, in a comedy special. I have a lot of respect for someone who can say, “Yeah, I screwed up, and this is what I’m going to do about it.”
Do you really think some anonymous coworker comments that “he’s a dick” are really worth changing your opinion over? I never had him on a pedestal so some coworkers having gripes with him means nothing to me but you seem to be saying “everyone thinks he’s great” was part of your image of him.
To be clear, they readily believed the allegations because they did not find them out of character. That’s a bit different than just disliking someone.
That’s bullshit though. Coworkers don’t know about your selfish sexual habits, which are often quite different with how selfish you are with the break room fridge.
“Dude used to label his yogurt. I have no doubt he was asking about sex immediately after his girlfriend’s surgery.”
They certainly can tell if you’re a pushy, controlling asshole. And the stuff they were corroborating were along the lines of vindictive blacklisting, not stealing yogurt. You understand he was the guy in charge, right? People tend to show their true selves when they have power. It’s not often pretty.
And yes, I idealized him to a ridiculous degree. I thought I made that clear.
A lot of celebrities careers are based around their image as someone likable or relatable. Ellen Degeneris’ talk show was largely built around the idea that Ellen was someone who would be fun to hang out with on an individual level. It turns out she’s actually a horrible asshole - and not in any illegal sense, just not a nice person. And her show is maybe getting cancelled as a result, because a lot of people just don’t like her any more, and liking her - as a person, not a performer - was the primary reason people watched her.
Hardwick stills host Talking Dead and The Wall. He was no longer the head of Nerdist prior to the allegations and is still listed as the founder.
Aziz had a huge outpour of support shortly after his story came out. He wasn’t a huge star prior so it’s hard to say what he lost because of it, but he was nominated for a Grammy last year.
I don’t doubt that some people with great reputations abuse their power or privilege to a few limited people if they think they can get away with it. This might be a sign of a personality disorder. I also don’t doubt some people with dicey reputations do not deserve them. I don’t really know much about many of the folks listed in this thread. AFAIK, Ansari handled an awkward situation somewhat badly but is hardly Trumpian. I could be wrong.
It seems to me that Whedon’s problem isn’t that he is a fake feminist but that he is generally an abusive asshole whose workplace abuse has been enabled and facilitated by his employers.
Ray Fisher hasn’t yet specified what Whedon’s behavior was on the set of Justice League but it seems logical to surmise that it wasn’t just fake feminism that was at issue.
Besides, being a feminist doesn’t preclude one from being an asshole and vice versa. Maybe Whedon really is a true feminist but he is also a abusive asshole.
I’ve written before about Aziz Ansari. I think his behavior as described was deplorable and I don’t feel sorry that he was called out for it. However I do like the way he has addressed the issue.
I don’t expect perfect behavior from everyone. But I think Aziz Ansari and Louis Szekely represent two ends of the spectrum of relatively good and bad ways to react to such a revelation. Of course, Louis’s behavior was a ton worse in the first place. I’m not sure exactly what the comeback would be from that but he definitely didn’t put himself even close to that path.
Just looking at myself. I consider myself a feminist. That doesn’t mean I will always be of perfect behavior. Maybe I might behave in a way that hurts a woman. Maybe I might behave in a way that is misogynist. Maybe I might say something anti-feminist. However what I strive for is to catch myself in such a circumstance, be introspective and judge my mistakes, and strive to be better. And that’s even if no one ever calls me out. I don’t say I’m a fake feminist or a hypocritical feminist as a result. I’m still a feminist. I’m just not perfect. But I strive to be better.
I say the same think with respect to racism, ageism, ableism, lookism, and whatever else might unfairly impact the lives of my fellow humans. I am going to make mistakes. So if you catch me, I won’t be surprised. It’s not a gotcha. But I can be better only if I try.
Is Whedon going to be better? I don’t know. Has he even admitted to himself what he has done?
But fuck him. What about the people Ray Fisher continues to struggle against, Whedon’s former bosses? Will they answer?
She had to so no twice, and he stopped - my god the horror !
Into the maw of the MeToo life destroyer he goes. Slime buckets like Harvey Weinstein definitely deserve what he got, but like most social justice movements it turned into a mindless mob and went after some people who didn’t deserve it IMO.
When the whole thing with Chris Hardwick came about, I went to my favorite victim advocate to discuss, and I told him I felt like I had believed in a lie. And he said, “Well, maybe he really is enlightened in all these ways, and the person he presented himself to be was sincere, but he also had these major blind spots that are just as real.” This is the same guy who told me, “We don’t garbage can people.” He helped give me some nuance.
And I don’t really want to get into why this affected me so much, but my friend’s words helped me to see everyone in this light. That’s why I can see the potential for growth in Aziz. I’ve never seen any evidence that Whedon is interested in growth as a person.
Yep, that poor, misunderstood Woke Feminist Ally St. Aziz of Chelsea, defamed and demeaned by those lying, conniving, cock-teasing Columbia co-eds, when all the poor guy did was just relentlessly browbeat her into a miserable little blowjobb, afterall its not like he raped her or tried to hold the door open for her or something.
I strongly disagree with your characterization of Aziz’ behavior and wish you wouldn’t minimize it. He’s no Harvey Weinstein but that doesn’t mean his behavior is acceptable.
The problem with #MeToo is that it went from “survivors share experiences to bring awareness to this pervasive issue” into “victims should name names” and eventually, “we should focus on the perpetrator.” It became a movement that had little interest in the victims and only focused on punishment for perceived wrongdoing. Obsessing over whether or not Whedon should lose his job diminishes the opportunity to develop empathy for the victim and understand their experience. The victim is also the one who should drive that process. Social media takes it out of the hands of the victim.
Furthermore, it does, as my friend would say, “garbage can people.” People are either paragons of virtue or total scumbags. Reality is far more messy. People can only grow and change if there is a clear path to redemption.
That’s not a condemnation of this discussion. I think it’s an important discussion. I’m talking about the movement as a whole. Even though #MeToo is probably a net good, I’m uncomfortable with some aspects of it.
Look, if someone is clearly on the fence about having sex, don’t have sex. Especially if you don’t know that person and have no frame of reference to gauge what their reluctance means. Pressuring someone into sex is gross. You’re really misrepresenting the situation but even if your take was accurate, it would still not be okay.
I once told a guy “no” and because I didn’t run screaming out the door he took my hand and put it on his penis. I was more pissed than traumatized but what he did was unequivocally wrong. I’d put Aziz’ behavior somewhere in that camp.
Thanks, I admittedely know very little about Louis C.K. and I initially was under the impression that he “Wore his Woke” with the best of them, painting himself as an evolved, thoughtful guy (as your cite shows he certainly did) but after the shameful, sticky white truth about his personality came out (seemingly in fits and spurts) I thought the narrative was that he had been basically “Confessing” his behaviour onstage for years, even if it was hidden in plain sight as all just being a egdy, transgressive joke.
The defiance and righteous indignation he has shown after finally being called on his actions (“What the fuck is the big deal? I love to jack off but I don’t like being lonely, so sue me, bitches!!!”) tells me all I need to know about what kind of a man he is.