So that happened... Whedon's “history of creating toxic and hostile work environments”

Cafe Society
464

Yes, I am sure that is my opinion. All his films are grimdark to me. And Watchmen is a book for Superhero haters.

Now the 300 was fun, a hot mess, grimdark, and I liked it.

He sez "I came to comic books through my mother. I loved fantasy art — I love Frank Frazetta…I was into this comic called Heavy Metal magazine>>" which is adultish comics and not superhero at all.

However, just to show you I am not alone:

Zack Snyder Never Really Understood Batman, Or Superman… Snyder’s incredibly eloquent defense certainly doesn’t clarify his creative decision, other than the fact that Snyder thinks the idea of a crimefighter who never kills people is ridiculous. Which it is, as is the concept of a billionaire in a bat costume.

What Snyder seems to be saying is, there are no real heroes. Something along the lines of what his previous superhero film, Watchmen , was all about. Watchmen , however, was a clever deconstruction of the superhero genre; it was a strange move to try something similar with archetypal characters like Superman and Batman.

http://www.thegeektwins.com/2019/03/6-reasons-zack-snyder-had-awful-ideas.html

# Man Of Reel: 15 Things That Zack Snyder Just Doesn’t Get About Superman

We take a look at 15 things that director Zack Snyder never understood about Superman during his tenure as figurehead of the DCEU!

So it isnt just me that thinks that.

That doesnt mean I dont think he is a talentless hack, but IMHO he was the wrong person for the DCU.

465

Now, why didn’t you say that up front?

466

Because it was obvious from context?

467

He supposedly has stated that he “is a fan of Superman” but I can’t find where.

468

Good point Miller. Yeah, liking Heavy Metal with the tits and the gore and the fantasy- but it is is pretty much the opposite of liking superhero comics.

Mind you, I also liked Heavy Metal at times, but was never a big fan. Same with the Film. Ok, fun in place, but not great.

469

Dammit! I typed in latter first and thought to myself that it didn’t look correct. I wish I could blame the alcohol but I hadn’t been drinking.

470

The Heavy Metal of Snyder’s 80s youth would have been still largely just the translated Métal Hurlant. Mœbius, at least, was high brow. And that’s not just me saying it - it’s people like:
Gaiman

I read [ Métal Hurlant ] over and over and envied the French because they had everything I dreamed of in comics – beautifully drawn, visionary and literate comics, for adults. I wanted to make comics like that when I grew up

and Fellini

He’s a unique talent endowed with an extraordinary visionary imagination that’s constantly renewed and never vulgar. Moebius disturbs and consoles. He has the ability to transport us into unknown worlds where we encounter unsettling characters. My admiration for him is total. I consider him a great artist, as great as Picasso and Matisse.

471

I was reading the same translations. It wasn’t all Moebius.

472

No, it was also stuff like Bilal, Druillet, Jodorowsky.

Hell, even Manara, as much as I dislike him, is not lowbrow trash.

473

Just throwing out there that this thread is the most ridiculously wide ranging thread I’ve been involved in for a long time. We have misogyny, bullying, racism, Hollywood Assholes, the value of Actors, and whether or not Zack Snyder likes comics.

5 stars, would read again.

474

Dang right. There was some seriously good stuff there. In the US market this was something quite different back in the day.

However, must also recognize, Heavy Metal was not an entirely faithful transposition of Métal Hurlant – couldn’t really be, the popular cultures are different enough – and the way it was sold and promoted came across as resting too much on the “tits and gore” angle for the American market.

475

How it was sold and promoted really doesn’t have much to do with the conversation though, does it?

476

I always wanted adult comics, with sex and nudity, but also with good stories and art. I tried subscribing to Heavy Metal for a while and found that the art was often shitty (horrible digital renderings too much of the time), the writing was often terrible, and instead of sexy adult stories, there was way too much over-the-top gore and depravity. Not what I wanted at all.

477

Sure, but even a 50% faithful rendering was still enough to make it not a “hilarious self-own” to consider it high brow.

Sounds like you got into it later in the game, especially if it was a lot of digital renderings.

478

The real question is if those are the kind of comics he liked (and I just went through your list to remind me of their styles) then why do his comic movies look so dark? They should look like The Fifth Element.

479

Because he’s not a teen anymore, and his tastes (and the public’s) have changed?

480

Well, judging by the success of his comic movies, maybe not.

481

His success has been highly variable. But the SnyderCut definitely has a higher rating than the theatrical JL release, so he clearly still has his fans (I’m not one of them - I haven’t even seen the SnyderCut, have never seen more than small snatches of 300 and only watched JL under protest. I did like quite a bit of MoS, though. We do not talk about Watchmen.)

482

He has talent. He’s just a terrible writer and director. His talent lies in producing awesome scenes. Not awesome stories. Which is what Whedon is actually good at.

483

As an aside, many people are lauding the Snyder Cut as so much better than Whedon’s need to factor in, that the Snyder cut is two hours longer.

Whedon had to produce a movie that would be releasable. He only had the shots Snyder had already produced and a few pickup scenes. If Snyder can’t write a film that can fit into the time he actually has, he failed as a writer. Comparing the two and finding the one that’s half the length faulty for lacking characterization is absurd.