So this is how the Catholic Church shows compassion to the victims of the child abuse it facilitated

[Derleth]

@The_Second_Stone

In the US, I would have to specifically get my client’s permission in writing to avoid pleading the defense of “failure to mitigate damages”, which is a pretty standard defense in a civil case. Granted, I would also want to get in writing my client’s permission to plead it in this kind of case. It is a necessary defense and a formal matter cannot be pleaded later if it is not pleaded now.

I think that the RCC has been despicable in their conduct around molestation and covering it up. But the pleading of this affirmative defense is has nothing to do with the despicable part.

When you’ve held yourself out as a paragon of moral virtue for nigh on two millennia, acting like a common perp in this case is despicable. Is the RCC supposed to be defended by God’s law or by man’s? If it is supposed to be defended by man’s law, where is God’s compassion and mercy for His righteous? If it is supposed to be defended by God’s law, it must render unto Caesar everything Caesar asks for without stint or quibble, and trust to God for the outcome.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@Derleth

When you’ve held yourself out as a paragon of moral virtue for nigh on two millennia, acting like a common perp in this case is despicable. Is the RCC supposed to be defended by God’s law or by man’s? If it is supposed to be defended by man’s law, where is God’s compassion and mercy for His righteous? If it is supposed to be defended by God’s law, it must render unto Caesar everything Caesar asks for without stint or quibble, and trust to God for the outcome.

By that logic, the Church should stop investigating pedophile priests completely. After all, if some little boy gets buggered, it’s God’s will.

[RTFirefly]

@The_Second_Stone

the pleading of this affirmative defense is has nothing to do with the despicable part.

Depends on what your frame of reference is, I suppose.

But the actual conduct of many of the Church’s lawyers and other representatives to alleged victims in the link is as far from compassionate as one can imagine. And the only reason for that treatment is money.

Cecilia McLauchlin felt she was in a game of “survivor” when she sued the London archdiocese in 2007. She was abused by Sylvestre when she was about 4 until she was 6.

The 32-year-old settled with the church last September — five days before her trial was to start. Prior to that, she had a 9-hour psychological assessment in Toronto for the defence that she said “haunted” her and caused regression in her therapy. The defence is entitled to conduct independent medical assessments.

McLauchlin was alone with a male doctor who asked graphic, explicit questions about her abuse and her adult sex life. She was also asked to describe the priest’s penis — even though Sylvestre was dead. McLauchlin said she was given a written assignment with hundreds of questions, such as: Do you ever feel like jumping off a bridge?

Ditching compassion for monetary gain is precisely the reverse of the Gospel that the Church claims to preach. They can claim to preach the Gospel, or they can act like this. But not both.

[RTFirefly]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

By that logic, the Church should stop investigating pedophile priests completely. After all, if some little boy gets buggered, it’s God’s will.

I’m not seeing that. Can you be more specific in drawing that connection?

[Steve_MB]

@SteveG1

I wonder, how many police departments, worldwide, would beg to differ with you. The problem is, the “code of silence” makes it hard to file charges and make them stick.

If there is sufficient will to flush out the criminals, this is not an insuperable obstacle – the Mafia has a code of silence, and yet the government has managed to put quite a few of its members in prison.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@RTFirefly

I’m not seeing that. Can you be more specific in drawing that connection?

Sure.

If it is supposed to be defended by God’s law, it must render unto Caesar everything Caesar asks for without stint or quibble, and trust to God for the outcome.

The Church doesn’t think God’s law applies only to it. It thinks God’s law applies to people, too - so if a little boy suffers, it’s God’s will. The whole point of this pedophilia crisis is that the Church forgot completely about temporal authority and substituted their own for it.

[RTFirefly]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

Sure.

The Church doesn’t think God’s law applies only to it. It thinks God’s law applies to people, too - so if a little boy suffers, it’s God’s will.

I think you’re misreading what Derleth is saying. There’s no real logical connection between a precept to render unto Caesar, and a belief that anything that happens is God’s will. (I don’t believe the Church buys into that belief anyway. If anything, it’s Calvinist.)

[The_Second_Stone]

@RTFirefly

Depends on what your frame of reference is, I suppose.

But the actual conduct of many of the Church’s lawyers and other representatives to alleged victims in the link is as far from compassionate as one can imagine. And the only reason for that treatment is money.

Ditching compassion for monetary gain is precisely the reverse of the Gospel that the Church claims to preach. They can claim to preach the Gospel, or they can act like this. But not both.

Obi-Wan: “Luke, you’re going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.”
Most members of the RCC believe in the doctrine of caring for each other and salvation. It is the way they have been taught to look at the world. Certainly there are those in the organization who abuse that and have made it about money and power, corruption is in every large organization, corruption being a deviation from an expected conduct.

In any event, the Plaintiffs have already got a lot of mileage out of these pleadings, which are initial positions taken so that the lawsuit can go forward. Hopefully at some point the parties will come to a settlement. As much as the mitigation defense sounds preposterous in this case, the asserting of the defense itself is not an injury to the Plaintiffs, and the bad press has made it an injury to the defense. The injury to the Plaintiffs took place long ago.

[Euphonious_Polemic]

@The_Second_Stone

. As much as the mitigation defense sounds preposterous in this case, the asserting of the defense itself is not an injury to the Plaintiffs, and the bad press has made it an injury to the defense. The injury to the Plaintiffs took place long ago.

Perhaps there was no “injury” to the Plaintiff from a strictly legalistic standpoint, but from a moral view, subjecting a victim of church abuse to further psycological damage,

ie

McLauchlin was alone with a male doctor who asked graphic, explicit questions about her abuse and her adult sex life. She was also asked to describe the priest’s penis — even though Sylvestre was dead. McLauchlin said she was given a written assignment with hundreds of questions, such as: Do you ever feel like jumping off a bridge?

• this seems (in my non-legalistic eye) to create additional injury to the Plaintiff. A very jaundiced view might be that the defense (Church) is hoping that the plaintiff is so destroyed emotionally that they withdraw the suit rather than suffer further trauma. Or, the defense (Church) is sending a warning to others who may seek redress: “Mess with us and we will make the process as horrible as we possibly can for you and try to destroy you a second time”

[Derleth]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

By that logic, the Church should stop investigating pedophile priests completely. After all, if some little boy gets buggered, it’s God’s will.

This is taking what I wrote, throwing it away, and substituting this for it.

My whole point is that the RCC is the entity that held itself out as a paragon of moral virtue, not the altar boys, and the RCC that claims to be God’s only lawful and righteous representative on Earth.

Therefore, it must either do as its founder, Jesus, commanded, and render unto Caesar without stint or quibble and trust to God for its defense, or, if it acts like a common temporal defendant in the temporal courts, explain why God abandoned it, His own institution, to the justice of Caesars.

[BrainGlutton]

Pope Forgives Molested Children.

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

@RTFirefly

But the actual conduct of many of the Church’s lawyers and other representatives to alleged victims in the link is as far from compassionate as one can imagine. And the only reason for that treatment is money.

Having observed in detail the tactics of the Church’s attorneys during the Boston Archdiocese cases, I can confirm that they made rabid weasels look civilized.

[RTFirefly]

@The_Second_Stone

the Plaintiffs have already got a lot of mileage out of these pleadings

Mileage?? “Like those widows and cripples in old London Town, who owe their large pensions to Wernher Von Braun.” Good Lord.

As much as the mitigation defense sounds preposterous in this case, the asserting of the defense itself is not an injury to the Plaintiffs, and the bad press has made it an injury to the defense. The injury to the Plaintiffs took place long ago.

From the OP’s link:

Lavers understands why Rogers wants to avoid a trial. He witnessed two Belvedere women crack during discovery sessions a decade ago.

“The ladies would have breakdowns (and) and would end up in the (psychiatric) hospital,” said Lavers, who then represented two Sisters of Mercy nuns who were being sued as individuals.

“My heart went out to a couple of them because it appeared to be a re-victimization of the whole thing.

This is more than “the asserting of the defense itself.” This, like the other example I quoted, is using the defense as a weapon against the victim.

[Kaio]

@The_Second_Stone

I think that the RCC has been despicable in their conduct around molestation and covering it up. But the pleading of this affirmative defense is has nothing to do with the despicable part.

Why not simply offer a settlement instead of a defense? That’s almost certainly where this will end up anyway, so all this dancing around and being shits to the victims is a pointless waste of time.

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

@alice_in_wonderland

You know, I can think of lots of words to describe the Catholic Church. Compassionate is not one of them.

I’ve met lots of individual Catholics that could be considered compassionate, but i’ve never once met someone actually associated with the church in an official capacity that was anything other than a power hungry asshole.

I can think of several Christian Brothers in positions of authority at CBHS & CBU in Memphis for whom the words compassionate and good are the most appropriate descriptors.