So, What DO you do with the money, fuckheads?

The BBQ Pit
141

[QUOTE=Zeriel]
Okay, kids, I run web services for a living. For a site that runs forums, image hosting, and reasonably heavy traffic, call it about 1k users (each of whom admittedly uses more bandwidth than any one SDMB poster), I pay the following:
$46k every year for a junior system administrator to oversee it.
$60k every three years for servers.
$5k every month for bandwidth and colo fees.

This is for a relatively modest server cluster, with n+1 redundancy and load balancing.

Sure, I could run this site for $2k a month. If I had 300-500 users and no need for a paid administrator.

I would not want to run a site the size of the SDMB (and the Straight Dope site associated with it) for less than a budget of $100k a year, and even that would be on a shoestring.

My job title is “Director of System Administration” where I work. Take it how you will.
[/QUOTE]
Good information! This makes it even more insane that Zambini57 seems to think it can be done for $2k per year!

Disclaimer: I have no official standing or knowledge here at all, I’m just going to report what I’ve heard and inferred.

I will say that I think the Readers budget does not include either a paid full time administrator or backup servers. My understanding is that Ed and Jerry are the paid staff that handle the administrative and technical support, but that it is only a small part of each of their jobs. This is one reason updates are few and far between, it’s not in the budget to spend time on them. I believe Tuba also gets a small check for handling some day to day details, but I get the feeling it’s a relatively small amount.

On the servers, my understanding is that it is a single server hosted somewhere outside of the reader. It was hosted inside and part of the Reader’s bandwidth until a couple of years ago when it was moved to the outside host, I’m assuming a CoLo somewhere.

Given that, and assuming a smaller hardware budget, I still think the $2k per month figure probably close, but could easily be low. That takes a big bite out of the subscription income.

142

[QUOTE=RJKUgly]
I’ve seen this sort of stupid assumption several times over the years, and still don’t understand it. For example, see this thread from a few years ago:

Ok, I understand most people know shit about cost accounting, but you’d think 10 seconds thought would keep them from saying stuff that was completely stupid.

As I point out in that thread, even if you think the server, bandwidth, software and electricity are free, what about the payroll for employees who support and run everything? Even if you assume that no one involved in running the board costs you more than $30 an hour (which is a ridiculously low cost IMHO) if they spend only a total of 10 hours a week running the board, that costs you over $15,000 per year. Just a touch over that two grand figure you seem to know about.

Now, are you really sure that both Jerry and Ed work for free, so that the time they spend on the board is free? Do you think that there is greatly less than 10 hours a week spent on the board?

Now add back in reasonable charges for running and hosting the server. Call it $150 a month for a decent CoLo and bandwidth (could easily be more), plus the cost of upgrading the server hardware now and again, and you’re looking at another $2400 per year, easily more.

Now those are just guesses. The Reader is a private company, and as such the only proper answer to the question of “How do you spend your money?” has been given: Fuck Off and Die.

So how about it genius? Still married to that $2000 per year figure?
[/QUOTE]

So what are you saying exactly, dribble-whip? That Opal, who runs not only a message board but an entire website, with better graphics than this one, is shelling out 50K a year to run it?

143

[QUOTE=Zambini57]
That Opal, who runs not only a message board but an entire website, with better graphics than this one, is shelling out 50K a year to run it?
[/QUOTE]

Tell you what, Sport. You go here and compare the usage statistics of the two and report back to us.

144

[QUOTE=Q.E.D.]
I agree. It’s absolutely your prerogative to look like total douche.
[/QUOTE]

Why don’t you get at least a GED, QED, before you tangle with me.

All you’ve done is express ad hominems, with no substance.

That wouldn’t normally bother me, but you are Mr. Anti-Ad-hominem, so, let’s hear why you really have a problem with me asking where the money goes, aside from the fact that you are on the SDSAB, and would hate to jeopardize that.

145

Asking to you back up your claims with some sort of evidence is not an ad hominem attack. In fact, neither is the post you just quoted. It’s just an insult. However, your assertion that I’ve offered nothing but ad hominens is false on a more fundamental level, as is your assertion that I have a problem with you asking the question. I do not; for proof, I invite you to read post #21.

146

[QUOTE=Q.E.D.]
Asking to you back up your claims with some sort of evidence is not an ad hominem attack. In fact, neither is the post you just quoted. It’s just an insult. However, your assertion that I’ve offered nothing but ad hominens is false on a more fundamental level, as is your assertion that I have a problem with you asking the question. I do not; for proof, I invite you to read post #21.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, I re-read Post 21.

And yes, this question may have been asked before. So, what’s wrong with pressing it? It’s called “customer feedback”.

If “Ed Zotti” should get the impression that many of those who have paid their money are unsatisfied, he may endeavor to find out why, and, reacting to that data, may offer an explanation, or not.

It’s really his input I am looking for, not that of his apologists.

147

Why in the world would you expect the owner of a message board to spend all of their income on board improvements? If I owned the SDMB and I couldn’t pocket 80% of your $15 to spend on hookers and blow, I’d shut the whole mess down.

148

[QUOTE=Fear Itself]
Why in the world would you expect the owner of a message board to spend all of their income on board improvements? If I owned the SDMB and I couldn’t pocket 80% of your $15 to spend on hookers and blow, I’d shut the whole mess down.
[/QUOTE]

Well, I don’t have a business degree, but I would think that the owners of this board do.

When this board started, it was free, and had no ads.

Now, it is not free, and has ads.

Both generate revenue that was not there before.

It’s very simple.

If, with the subscription fees, and the revenue generated by the ads is beneficial to the Chicago Reader, then they should make efforts to ensure that the users of the board are satisfied.

If not, then they should shut it down.

If it brings in money, make the money-bringers happy. IF NOT, GET RID OF IT.

Case closed.

What I am wondering is: have the owners of this board concluded that the die-hard regs are willing to put up with minimal service? And have so decided to relegate revenues elsewhere (like their own pockets), because they know the core will not complain.

149

[QUOTE=Zambini57]
If, with the subscription fees, and the revenue generated by the ads is beneficial to the Chicago Reader, then they should make efforts to ensure that the users of the board are satisfied.
[/QUOTE]
Do you have any evidence that a significant percentage of the paid users are not satisfied? I don’t know of any business that feels an obligation to satisfy 100% of their customers. I own my own business, and I have hung up on customers, or directed them to my competitors. There are always a certain percentage who are beyond pleasing, and a business is better off without them.

150

[QUOTE=Zambini57]
So what are you saying exactly, dribble-whip? That Opal, who runs not only a message board but an entire website, with better graphics than this one, is shelling out 50K a year to run it?
[/QUOTE]
No I’m asking you to think for 10 seconds.

Look at the numbers I posted. Where is 90% of the money going? Payroll. If you have to pay anyone anything to manage and maintain the board, it adds up fast. Opal does all her own management. She creates her own content and web pages. She doesn’t pay for it. I believe I’ve heard that sections of her board are not updated for months at a time because she doesn’t have time to do it.

Her hardware needs and bandwidth needs are a fraction of what this site requires. That translates to much less money required.

So I’m asking you to think about it for a few seconds before spouting more idiocy. Do you have any rebuttal for the numbers I’ve posted?

151

[QUOTE=Zambini57]
Well, I don’t have a business degree, but I would think that the owners of this board do.

[/QUOTE]

I think we figured that out awhile ago… :rolleyes:

152

(on re-read…post deleted by its author, to avoid repeating earlier posts)

153

never mind

154

[QUOTE=RJKUgly]
No I’m asking you to think for 10 seconds.

Look at the numbers I posted. Where is 90% of the money going? Payroll. If you have to pay anyone anything to manage and maintain the board, it adds up fast. Opal does all her own management. She creates her own content and web pages. She doesn’t pay for it. I believe I’ve heard that sections of her board are not updated for months at a time because she doesn’t have time to do it.

Her hardware needs and bandwidth needs are a fraction of what this site requires. That translates to much less money required.

So I’m asking you to think about it for a few seconds before spouting more idiocy. Do you have any rebuttal for the numbers I’ve posted?
[/QUOTE]

Well, that brings us back to my original questions.

What exactly are the nuts and bolts of an operation of this type?

I’ve seen other posters post that the “vBB” software for a site such as this can be purchased for under $100.

As for server space: How much? Does the SDMB own it’s own servers or rent space on others? And how much does that cost?

As for maintainance: What is that exactly? The mods work for free, but of course they just monitor the content, and have nothing to do with running the board (or DO they?)

If the SDMB has their own servers, they are probably in a room with a hundred others, run by a company for a set fee. If they share, probably the same thing only cheaper.

Is that how it works?

All I have asked for since the beginning of this thread is for some solid facts and figures from people in the know, without any foolish wand-waving from geeks who are more interested in demonstrating their prowess in the computer field than providing cogent answers.

155

[QUOTE=Zambini57]
All I have asked for since the beginning of this thread is for some solid facts and figures from people in the know, without any foolish wand-waving from geeks who are more interested in demonstrating their prowess in the computer field than providing cogent answers.
[/QUOTE]
You never asked for anything, you *demanded * it. Not that it makes any difference; you are not entitled to that information, not even if you hold your breath and thrash around on the floor.

156

[QUOTE=Fear Itself]
You never asked for anything, you *demanded * it. Not that it makes any difference; you are not entitled to that information, not even if you hold your breath and thrash around on the floor.
[/QUOTE]
Not that we would discourage you if you would wish to do so.

157

I say when you have a username like “Muffin”, you’re asking for it.

That doesn’t mean he had any delusions about your gender, though. :wink:

Did I miss the part where I advocated a rule against you coming in with guns blazing?

If you think we’re offended, or that it’s about your “language”, you’re missing the point badly. Unfortunately, I’m not qualified to give you the help you need. I hope someday you find the strength to get help.

That’s my question, actually. What hypocrisy? When have I responded kindly to being implicated in a conspiracy before? If you can prove that I’ve done that, I’ll eat my hat.

And I’m the hypocrite! Tell me, how’s that tinfoil hat working out for you?

Doesn’t seem like many of those who have paid their money are unsatisfied–just one troll.

If you’ve really lurked for as long as you say you have, you know that we’re getting more than “minimal service”. But then, you’re impervious to logic, so maybe it just flew over your head. Or maybe you just learned as a child that if you screamed loud enough you would get what you want, and you haven’t yet had a jailhouse beatdown to teach you that the world doesn’t work that way.

158

[QUOTE=Zambini57]
Well, that brings us back to my original questions.

What exactly are the nuts and bolts of an operation of this type?

I’ve seen other posters post that the “vBB” software for a site such as this can be purchased for under $100.

As for server space: How much? Does the SDMB own it’s own servers or rent space on others? And how much does that cost?

As for maintainance: What is that exactly? The mods work for free, but of course they just monitor the content, and have nothing to do with running the board (or DO they?)

If the SDMB has their own servers, they are probably in a room with a hundred others, run by a company for a set fee. If they share, probably the same thing only cheaper.

Is that how it works?

All I have asked for since the beginning of this thread is for some solid facts and figures from people in the know, without any foolish wand-waving from geeks who are more interested in demonstrating their prowess in the computer field than providing cogent answers.
[/QUOTE]
It would help if actually read other posts instead of just name-calling.

In my post #126 I make some guesses based on real world experience with hosting web servers. In post #128 Zeriel gives some estimates (even higher than mine) again based on experience in running web servers. In Post # 129 What Exit weighs in with some estimates. How many more do you need?

In the very post you replied to, I say that most of the cost is going to be payroll. And yet you continue to harp on the hardware issue. To address some of those issues again, it can cost from $20 to many thousands per month to host a server and pay for bandwidth. My guess based on the sites I administer is a bare minimum of $150 per month. It could be much more, I don’t see how it could be much less. Servers and software can be purchased for as little as about $2500 each up to ten time that. Assuming a server will last you five years, that means a minimum of $40 per month for just the server. Spend any more than the bare minimum, have any repair costs, or replace them more often than 5 years and the number jumps way up easily.

The people at the Reader who have the exact numbers have said they cannot respond with specifics due to corporate policy. They have given broad outlines, which are reflected in my estimates. Given that they are a privately held company, that’s quite likely as much of an answer that is available. But it is easy to see that the costs of running the board far exceed your foolish estimate of $2000 per year, and are likely somewhere between $20k and $50 k.

Your ridiculous assertion of hundreds of thousand dollars per year of subscription revenue has also been addressed in this thread. The truth is quite likely to be in the $50k to $70k per year range.

So again I ask, will you bother to actually read the thread you’re posting in and think for a few seconds before posting more foolishness?

159

[QUOTE=RJKUgly]
So again I ask, will you bother to actually read the thread you’re posting in and think for a few seconds before posting more foolishness?
[/QUOTE]

Ya know, I think calm, rational discussion, open debate, and the free exchange of ideas in an open and enlightened setting might just possibly be right out with this bozo.
But if we pro-rate my subscription based on the entertainment value of this one thread, It seems I’m getting the rest of the year for free.
.

160

[QUOTE=Darth Nader]
Ya know, I think calm, rational discussion, open debate, and the free exchange of ideas in an open and enlightened setting might just possibly be right out with this bozo.
But if we pro-rate my subscription based on the entertainment value of this one thread, It seems I’m getting the rest of the year for free.
.
[/QUOTE]

If we all club together we could pay his subscription for him - it would be worth it.