So, what does England get out of the Union, anyway?

It’s being reported on the news today that Scotland is to get free prescriptions out of money from Westminster (and, presumably, the English). This is another in a long series of benefits that the Welsh and Scottish see off the back of English money (Wales already has free prescriptions).

So, what is the benefit to England of maintaining the Union? There seems to be a lot of negatives (money, West Lothian Question etc.) but no obvious positives.

Naval bases in Scotland, for one. North Sea oil for another.

Seems to me that the West Lothian Question would be solved by some kind of federal system; as it is, it’s not really a tractable thing.

Naval bases in Scotland? They’re for the British Armed Forces.

Which defend England, too.

England, through the United Kingdom, can draw upon the resources of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland for taxes, transportation, national defense, labor, capital, natural resources, and so on. It’s part of a ready-made unitary economic system while still in the UK. It partakes of the national unifying symbols and history of the monarchy, the defeat of Napoleon, the hard-won victories of WWI and WWII, the British Empire, etc. I understand that it irks many English people today to see Wales and Scotland being more assertive about their semi-kinda-quasi-autonomous status, but that’s to be expected, given how dominant England has been in the UK for centuries.

As an American, I must say I regret anything that would tend to fray the bonds that hold the UK together or cause regional resentments.

And presumably would still exist, Union or not. Scotland needs national defence, too.

Taxes? England pays £11bn annually to Scotland (and a load to Wales). The money’s only flowing one way, via the Barnett formula.

And what natural resources are we talking here? Oil? Production in the North Sea is winding down, no major new fields have been discovered in decades, the Norwegians are already shutting up shop. I don’t see how an act of Union also implies better access to resources. Presumably an independent England and Scotland will still trade with one another?

Rather trivial stuff.

First, it isn’t a case of the English being annoyed because of the semi-autonomy that Wales and Scotland have carved out for themselves. Rather, it’s the case that there’s significant benefits to living in Scotland rather than England that are being funded with English money.

For example, Scotland’s NHS provides an extra eleven drugs for diseases like lung cancer and alzheimer’s disease, not available in England, payed for with English money.

The problem isn’t that Scotland’s autonomous.

In a few years time? Water. At friend prices. :wink:

But you are right about the Barnett formula needing reworking, although Scotland does have higher infrastructure costs than many parts of England, and some long-term and seemingly intractable health problems in certain parts of the country. Actually I’m pretty sure that the last settlement from the consolidated fund was below expectation*, so perhaps rebalancing is under way. The real beneficiary of government spending in the UK however is London, although much of this is indirect.

  • I can’t find a non-partisan cite for this, but the Nationalists were kicking up a stink about it.

I’m curious what would happen if Scotland did not have national defense. Would Vikings invade?

Those Scandinavians have been trying to lull you into a false sense of security for centuries now, trying to make you think all they care about nowadays is socialized medicine, pretentious films and aquavit. Watch out! Their axes are still sharp.

Maybe so but their women are still hot, hot, hot :smiley:

Ha. Only a problem for our Southern brothers, I’m afraid. Manchester isn’t running out anytime soon :smiley:

Too right. £5.2bn to connect to a railway not 150 miles away!

Then we can sell our water at exorbitant prices to our Southern brothers :smiley:

After it’s had Mancs in it? :eek:

UK revenue from north sea oil for 07 is expected to be about 9.7 billion, which is not insignificant to the UK.
You are correct that no new major fields have been discovered, but a lot of small satalite fields are being developed. One largish field, Buzzard was brought on stream recently and is kicking out about 200 Kbbls a day. Smaller operators with lower cost structures are taking over some of the older infrastructure and improving production in brownfields. Overall UK is approx 1.8 million bbls/day.

Recoverable reserves are going down, but it ain’t dead yet and probably will not be for some time and I would not dismiss the North Sea oil revenue just yet.

From the OP:

It’s another move in the Nationalist’s campaign to niggle the English and build up English opinion against the Union… They announce free prescriptions (although nobody seems very worked up over getting them) because Scots are ambivalent about independence and having people south of the border thinking we should piss off out of the Union is useful to the Scot Nats cause. IMO.