Oh, believe me, I would never claim that Organic farms are necessarily more humane for the animals. But, a significant portion of that is because conventional farms are amazingly humane already, when they are not run by idiots. But, the Idiot Caveat applies to organic farms as well.
Like KarlGrenze said, I used the term “humanely euthanized” because the techniques it describes are to be used by veterinarians and non-idiot producers alike. But, humane euthanasia doesn’t mean the animal goes to sleep surrounded by friends, floating away on a fluffy pink cloud to the rainbow bridge. It does mean that the critter is put through as little stress as possible and its death is as rapid as can be reasonably and reliably achieved.
You’re the third person who has suggested that I read “The Omnivore’s Dilemma.” I haven’t yet because I figured my 4 years in college studying Animal Science and 4 years in veterinary school studying production medicine and visiting farms and slaughter houses across the country gave me a pretty good idea of where our food comes from. But, I guess I better so I can have more credibility on the internet.
I’d say your personal experience gives you plenty of credibility. I would not question your credentials to weigh in.
Here’s the comment I was referring to:
(by Pullet):
“When a critter on an organic farm takes sick, it is either humanely euthanized or treated.”
I thought this left an inference to be taken that “organic” farms are somehow more humane by default. As you are aware, some of the federal standards seem to leave the same impression. As you correctly point out above, it’s the farmer and not the “organic” versus Other, that makes treatment humane.
“The Omnivore’s Dilemma” is not really about food production mechanisms per se, although there are a number of descriptions in there about a handful of specific farms and farmers. It’s much more a philosophical treatise around what we eat and why we eat it. I recommend it simply as a balanced commentary on…well…the omnivore’s dilemma about eating living creatures. It does have a handful of examples of some of the farcical results of “organic” farming (and particularly industrial organic, so to speak).
You’d enjoy this example, I think, from Pollon’s book given your user name (and I’m pretty sure you’d agree it’s an accurate example).
(In reference to Petaluma farm’s organic chicken production sheds):
“…Federal rules say an organic chicken should have “access to the outdoors,” and Supermarket Pastoral imagines it, so Petaluma Poultry provides the doors and the yard and everyone keeps their fingers crossed.
It would appear Petaluma’s farm managers have nothing to worry about…”
Since baby birds are closed up inside until they are 5 weeks old to protect them, and since “the chickens see no reason to venture out…into a terrifying world… (and ) Since the birds are slaughtered at seven weeks, a free range turns out to be not so much a lifestyle for these chickens as a two week vacation option.” (p 172 of the paperback)
I’m still amused at that turn of a phrase. But it makes the point that translating “organic” into “humane” is sometimes more of a regulatory than pastoral Ideal.
Well, you can see an example of such marketing right there in the first link in my post #25: “No Hormones or Antibiotics, our Beef Products don’t have anything in them that Mother Nature didn’t intend for your body to have.”
I agree that the “better overall because more natural and humane” line is also an important selling point for organic meats, but I think you underestimate the marketing importance of the simpler and more focused claim “free of antibiotics because antibiotics are bad for you”. (I’m not arguing for the validity of that claim as stated, mind you, just pointing out that organic meat advertising makes use of it.)
Darling, you were always all nice; we just happen to disagree about everything. Nuthin’ wrong with that.
I don’t want to attack you, but I’m hiqhly skeptical of your claim that conventional animal farms in the US are already very humane. While I don’t have the videos from reporters (both journalists and animal activists) for chicken farms in the US, only in Europe, I highly doubt that in the US, which lead the way in industrializing agriculture on a big scale in the first place, chickens are held in a different style than in Europe. Not because of animal farmers being idiots, but because saving space is profitable, keeping calves in the dark to get white meat is more profitable than letting it out in the sun, feeding soy from 3 rd world is more profitable than grass, cutting beaks and horns when animals get aggressive because of the lack of space is more profitable than giving more space, etc.
Given the difficulties the EU parliament and national parliaments have to enforce the minimum humane standards against the lobbyists of the animal farmers (crying that they will go out of business), I highly doubt that the US passed laws for better humane treatment. And without laws, profit will trump humane treatment.
I really wonder what farms you have seen that you see little difference between organic and conventional, given that organic farmers have strict rules about putting animals out into the fresh air, feeding natural food, limiting size to pasture (one cow per hectare, also keeping the water clean), limiting antibiotics for growth, limiting cutting beaks/ horns etc.
Unless the US has radically different rules for organic, and extremely humane rules for conventional, the difference is much greater than simply a two-week vacation outside. It means that the chickens come from a different breed, are fed natural grain from organic farms instead of soy from 3rd world, that they have a minimum living space bigger than legal letter pad, and so on. It usually means that the chickens are raised longer, because a lot of stuff that makes them grow faster is forbidden. And so on.
You ‘veal’ calves by restraining them from exercise, not keeping them in the dark. Muscle tissue doesn’t suntan …the non-exercise keeps the muscles undeveloped and tender, the all milk diet is low iron and leads to pale meat. Think of it as induced anemia.
I spent 3 years in Ag School + 4 years in veterinary school and have treated large animals including food animals from organic farms for over 20 years (my God is it really that long?) - and I’d highly recommend the Ominvore’s Dilemma. It’s a good read. Not that you need to be educated per se, but because it is a refreshing take on the entire subject.
