If you walked out of the audience and onto the stage at the Oscars and slapped Chris Rock how do you think you would have been treated?
I’m curious what Mr. Rock’s reaction would’ve been had Mr. Smith laid him out with a haymakin’ right hook.
Would different levels of “battery” apply?
And had the slap made Chris Rock take a step back, in California that is also kidnapping.
I didn’t understand UltraVires to be specifically talking about walking onto the stage at the Oscars and slapping Chris Rock - but OK, let’s say he was. The first thing is I’m getting arrested for trespassing because I do not have a ticket. As far as whether the police charge me with slapping him - I have no idea. I don’t live in LA and I don’t have enough knowledge of how LAPD operates to know how they typically handle incidents where they see one person slap another and the victim is uncooperative.
The typical problem is that with an uncooperative victim is that you cannot prove what happened. In a typical domestic violence case, you have the police called, and one or both participants battered and bloody.
When it comes time for trial if the victim “refuses to press charges” then you have no evidence. Most states follow the “impeachment evidence cannot be used as substantive evidence” rule so if she gets up on the stand and says that he never hit her, the case is at a dead end. Yes, there was something…she was injured, but she says he never hit her. Reasonable doubt. She could have been injured any number of ways and the prosecutor has nothing to show otherwise.
Here, and I repeat myself, you have a video, seen by millions where Smith unmistakably walks on stage and slaps Rock. Game, set, match. You say that the case is “unwinnable” and I am just gobsmacked by that. You have all the evidence you need right there, even if Rock flies off to South America.
I think it is ok to assume you had tickets to be in the audience to not confuse the issue.
I will say we have loads of examples of people who disrupt events, not even violently, who are whisked off by the police. Even if they got in the audience legally.
For example, if you had stood up in the audience at the Oscars and started yelling about your support for Ukraine I bet you would have police grabbing you and dragging you out at the very least.
I find it a bit hard to believe that the average cop would typically make an arrest or even issue a citation if they witnessed a “fight” which consisted of one open-handed slap, with the slappee not wanting to press charges.
But we have enough cops and ex-cops here that hopefully one will give their perspective.
Sure - but I didn’t say that wouldn’t happen. I still don’t know how LAPD would handle the slap.
There’s a lot of video of Will Smith hitting people out there. Could you use the rest of it to get a conviction? Like, I don’t actually think that this was a publicity stunt, but I probably wouldn’t convict just on the basis of the video. I think it would be pretty funny if the defense attorney were to enter film footage of Will Smith hitting people (and aliens) and ask why that wasn’t prosecuted.
What’s the prosecutor’s case going to be if they can’t get Rock to testify? We’re pretty sure it was real because a lot of people saw it on television?
I’d been pretty surprised if they didn’t. If someone slaps someone right in front of cop (who to make the analogy more accurate) had his bodycam on and had a clear view of guy A making a joke about guy B’s wife, guy B slapping guy A, and is surrounded by witnesses who also had their phones out recording (who would also witness the cop doing nothing) . Its not the crime of the century, but its clearly a blatant physical assault, right in front of the a cop. Whatever guy A says, guy B is getting a trip to the station.
That and we have HD footage of it happening from several angles that shows it was clearly a real blow to the face. That doesn’t seem like much of a reach.
How do we know it wasn’t a publicity stunt? We’re certainly all talking about Chris Rock and Will Smith and the Oscars. Seems like it worked pretty well.
To be clear: I’m not suggesting that Smith didn’t really hit Rock. I’m suggesting that it couldn’t be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Rock didn’t consent to the whole thing. Just like the guys that Smith hit while filming Ali and Independence Day.
But would the burden of proof be on the prosecutor? That would seem like it would make prosecuting any assault case pretty tricky, particular in cases where the victim is not testifying (which as other posters have said, happens a lot in domestic violence cases). I would have thought (again, IANAL) that would be more similar to a claim of self defense, where the burden of proof would be on the defendant.
I mean even the victim saying “I didn’t consent to being slapped” isn’t really ‘beyond reasonable doubt’.
Sure, you have all the evidence you need. That doesn’t mean the judge who is pissed off that you’re wasting their time doesn’t find a way to dispose of the case without a conviction. ( and in my state, it would be a judge, not a jury)
Isn’t this exactly how the prosecutors are convicting the January 6 insurrectionists?
Once we all come down off our high horses, this was appallingly stupid and hypocritical on Smith’s part (he had already laughed at the joke according to the same video feed) but it depends on Rock’s wishes whether to make it a legal case.
One person hitting, slapping, shoving, poking, or otherwise laying hands on another as an first, offensive move, undoubtedly happens a million times a day. All of these are wrong but arresting everyone guilty so would clog up the courts in the same way that forcing every person who breaks a traffic law to come into court would do. Our system is not geared to handle all cases. Doing so may lead to a better society, or it may lead to even more contempt for and shunning of the law than the current high levels.
“Hard cases make bad law” is a trite but true saying that goes back at least to 1904 by US Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. If the police were to be involved, and the prosecutors decided to actually turn it into a case, it would be settled and over before anyone could blink. Nor would this be special privilege. That’s the way the vast majority of cases that get into the court system wind up. The specialness here comes from wanting a case prosecuted that normally the system would not waste its time with because the victim does not want them to.
Now, let’s just cancel Smith the old fashioned way and drop the prosecution silliness.
As I said above, the standard is not beyond all speculative doubt, or else Will Smith could never be prosecuted for anything because, “Hey, how do we know this isn’t a movie?”
A consent defense would be an affirmative defense and he would then have to explain the statement he made today:
“Violence in all of its forms is poisonous and destructive. My behavior at last night’s Academy Awards was unacceptable and inexcusable. Jokes at my expense are part of the job, but a joke about Jada’s medical condition was too much for me to bear and I reacted emotionally,” Smith wrote. “I would like to publicly apologize to you, Chris. I was out of line and I was wrong. I am embarrassed and my actions were not indicative of the man I want to be. There is no place for violence in a world of love and kindness.”
The post continued, “I would also like to apologize to the Academy, the producers of the show, all the attendees and everyone watching around the world. I would like to apologize to the Williams Family and my King Richard Family. I deeply regret that my behavior has stained what has been an otherwise gorgeous journey for all of us. I am a work in progress.”
So, Mr. Smith, this was all part of a show, but you felt the need to apologize?
I mean, with some of the opinions in this thread, it is amazing that anyone is ever convicted of anything and I wish you were on my juries.
Make them say that in court under oath.
Even a claim of self-defense doesn’t necessarily shift the burden of proof - in some states the prosecution has the burden of proving that the defendant didn’t act in self-defense.
I understand that people regularly get away with it, but where is your evidence that when the police see it, they let it go? Especially when it is done in front of 15 million people. The courts are clogged with domestic violence cases. The modern enlightened example is that you don’t slap someone in front of a crowd to defend your wife’s honor.
I’m not saying that he should do hard time busting rocks into gravel at San Quentin. I’m saying that the authorities should prosecute this to show that it is unacceptable. How can any battery be enforced if this one is not? How is it fair if I get drunk and slap a guy sitting next to me in a bar because I don’t like something he said, when Will Smith can do the same in front of 15 million people? To the contrary, allowing rich and privileged people to get away with it breeds disrespect for the law.
One point being ignored, at least by LAPD, is the power dynamic. I don’t know if Will Smith has the power to hurt Chris Rock’s movie career but let’s look at a maybe-similar scenario. My boss’ boss slaps me at a Christmas office party. It was filmed by multiple party goers and posted to Facebook. I don’t press charges because that guy will destroy my career if I do. Would the cops force me to press charges in order to hold him accountable?
It also seems to me that cops don’t go after low-hanging fruit. Like when your Ring picks up a porch-pirate and everyone can ID him as Bob Jones. Dudes, that an easy win in court but the cops are, nah not worth our time.