So You Think You Can Protest

Again, like others, you make the ridiculous and ahistorical error of conflating the political protest movements with the “hippie-types.” Sure, there was overlap between the groups in many cases, but the fact that you are ignorant enough to believe that political protesters were simply about free love and weed, man, says more about you than about them. Not only that, but you make the error of assuming that protests were a purely late-1960s phenomenon, when they had, in fact, been going for decades by the late 1960s. Of course, focusing on the late 1960s serves your ignorant cause, because it helps you feel (incorrectly) justified in arguing that protesters were just pathetic hippies who effected no change at all.

I don’t think anyone is arguing that improvements in the American social and political landscape since World War II are purely and simply a direct product of protests; nor is anyone arguing that progress only came about after the late 1960s. But to point to a few conveniently-placed (for your diatribe) legal developments and argue that this negates any effect the protest movements might have had is asinine.

First, as **dropzone **notes, the incidents you discuss did not magically change American attitudes. The passing of Brown v. Board, and of various federal and state legal measures designed to offer a modicum of equality, may have changed the law and the regulations in many instances, but they by no means guaranteed that those laws or regulations would be honored anywhere except in the breach.

Many American cities saw massive fights against desegregation, battles that began specifically because of decisions like Brown v. Board. One could argue, in fact, that the Supreme Court decision was really the beginning, not the end, of the on-the-ground fight for desegregation in America. Read urban histories of cities like Memphis, Atlanta, Baltimore, Detroit, and plenty of others, and you’ll find stories of city governments as well as school boards and everyday citizens doing everything they could to maintain segregation even in the face of federal pressures to change their ways.

And while i would never argue that things are now perfect, or that the history of women in America is one unbroken arc of empowerment and equality, the rise of the feminist movement in the 1960s and early 1970s did much to change many American’s attitudes regarding gender issues.

Actually, many modern history books, even school texts, do a pretty good job of tracing the arc of the civil rights movement, the Vietnam protests, and other cases of civil disobedience and social conflict. And even the mediocre ones makes clear that i9t was about more than just Brown v. Board and a couple of other well-known incidents.

I’m willing to bet that NinjaChick’s version of events is a product of poor reading skills, or selective interpretation designed to buttress some dearly-held preconceptions.

Martin Hyde = ***Fucking deluded narcissistic and fascist sociopath.

Iraq “going well,” huh, motherfucker? Eat shit, you genocidal scumbag:

Iraq faces alarming humanitarian crisis

Third of Iraqis ‘need urgent aid’

Iraq captain says he fears for his life, calls for US to leave country

Iraq: One in seven joins human tide spilling into neighbouring countries

Half of Iraq “In Absolute Poverty”

U.S. drops Baghdad electricity reports

Parliament adjourns in blow to Bush

Operation Iraq betrayal

Army Offering $20,000 Bonus For ‘Quick’ Recruits

American Marines and soldiers have become socialized to atrocity.

Fresh from the Iraqi Oven.

And that’s just a quick glance at today’s headlines out of Iraq, you sack-o’-shite. Read them and get back to us with some more of that Government-fed propaganda of yours. And tomorrow I’ll post another dozen links proving what fucking liars both you and your Government are.

If you’ll excuse me, I think I’ll go throw-up now.***

Oh, and BTW, Lib, great OP. Perhaps that’s the problem in America right now…too many people like yourself abandoned their ideas/ideals for a better tomorrow for all of us and instead turned to “books” (read = get rich and fuck the rest) and the rest is well…read your OP again.

“Land of The Free” my ass.

Liberal, I congratulate you on having won one of the honors when the O. Henry Prizes were awarded! I can’t tell you how much I covet such a distinction!
The O. Henry is well-known.

For anyone unfamiliar with the process:

Over a year’s time, magazine editors submit their isssues to the O. Henry Prize Committee editor. (They have to have been published in the United States or Canada.) The editor selects up to thirty-five stories to submit to the jury. The jury changes every years and is made up of distinguish and award winning writers. They read the stories without consulting each other. (The stories don’t have names on them and they don’t indicate what publication they are from.) Each juror selects her or his favorite.

Liberal, just for the trivia: “O. Henry” is buried in Ashville, North Carolina just a few steps – a short walk away – from Thomas Wolfe. Imagine my surprise when I found his grave quite by accident! Still pulling surprise endings after all these years…

Voyager, you are aces. And that is the correct spelling!

It wasn’t until recently that I noticed that the night of my graduation from high school – May 19, 1961 – was during the Freedom Rides. I like knowing that.

NinjaChick, someday take a good look at Martin Luther King, Jr. delivering his I Have a Dream Speech in Washington in 1963. I remember watching it live. It was overwhelming! But this time notice one thing. Look at the people who stand with him. Where is Rosa Parks? Where are the women?

As aware of the ugliness of oppression as they were, Martin Luther King, Jr., Ralph Abernathy, Andrew Young and others had yet to realize the value and strength of women in leadership roles. Their own march for Civil Rights overlooked the potential of 50% of Black people. The irony is really sad. But it does illustrate how far we’ve come since 1963.

It’s a good thing we kept going in the Seventies. Harvard University did not accept responsibility for the education of undergraduate women until 1977!

Source

That is particularly strange when according to their Admissions Department three or four years ago, most of the applicants who qualify for admission are women. (Source: CBS News) They do still try to maintain a balance according to gender. I don’t object to Affirmative Action for males if that is what they are doing.

Do not forget what this war does to our soldiers. One third returning with mental problems. Which we will try to avoid paying for. Last I heard 116 soldiers have committed suicide. We will be bringing home some really sad cases too. We have done wrong in the name of the neocon New World Order.

Meanwhile, the Iraqi government and the two Houses of Congress of the United States are going on vacation. All they need is a short man in a toga wearing a laurel wreath and playing a fiddle standing on the steps of the Capitol.

Did they ever think about maybe not taking a vacation? I know it’s the tradition, but…“There’s always been a lottery.”

Heh. Back in the day, didn’t some kids fear summer camp because they were worried that their folks would move away without telling them?

Maybe the Iraqi Parliament could do with a Camp Waka-Wimi-Mookee experience…

You have your cite, I have mine. If you feel the need to cry foul, don’t bother doing so with me, it won’t get you anywhere. Your cite was a hard news story that demonstrated absolutely nothing about the general status of Iraq. Iraq is a big picture, you tried to offer up evidence from a small slice of that picture and presented it as a some sort of proof that the entire situation is currently bad.

The rest of your points have been summarily discarded by me, as I feel they were lacking in merit. Try again with more meaningful commentary. Your bringing up how X month had X number of casualties is not a valid commentary on the general situation in Iraq. Any fool knows you can’t judge the success of a military engagement solely based on casualty numbers.

I graduated in 1977 (which is actually one year later than might be expected considering the year I graduated High School), I have no idea why I said 1978 in that thread–my gut feeling is it was a typo, as I certainly wouldn’t forget the year.

The linked thread just tends to show how mind-numbingly stupid you are, it’s very common for you to interject whatever stupid bullshit anecdotal information you’ve accumulated throughout your life as fact. I’m sorry again if the picture that I painted of West Point didn’t sync up 100% with whatever anecdotal shit you heard from whatever friend of yours you had who attended the academy. My original post in the thread you linked to had the intention of conveying the idea that the service academies are, in fact, much like other undergraduate programs educationally. And that students at one of the academies play out dual roles both as cadets and as students.

Yes, I phrased that incorrectly. I intended to differentiate the ACW from the war in Vietnam/Iraq, which were/are not wars of survival.

“Mind numbingly stupid” really doesn’t even come close to describing what it takes to be a Republican in 2007.

Lalalalala, I can’t hear you? That’s what you’ve been reduced to?

You learn to cut & run like that at West Point or is just natural talent?

I think it’s interesting that you love numbers and trends when you think they support your contention, but “you can’t judge the success” when they go against you.

Either way, you’re a complete fucking coward and I’m done here.

That is what protest truly requires to be effective though, peaceful protest in the face of violent opposition. The march on Selma would’ve meant nothing if everyone allowed it.

If only we’d known how long (God! How long!..) it would take, how paltry the rewards. How a generation later so many would sneer, how many would never, ever forgive us…

We would have done it anyway.

I was just reading a piece on school desegregation by a writer who was a student in 8th grade in a school in the rural South when the verdict was announced. He said his teacher came into the classroom white-faced and said that “next year you’ll be going to school with the Negroes.” His old school didn’t actually integrate until 1973, though, when he was a law school professor teaching Brown.

projection *(pr&-JEK-sh&n) *: the attribution of one’s own ideas, feelings, or characteristics to other people or to objects

We didn’t do it for their thanks. We did it because it was the right thing to do. And I’ll admit there was an element of keeping my own sorry ass out of Nam, but my self-interest was ENLIGHTENED self-interest. I didn’t want Joe Blow across the country going any more than I wanted to go.

But, before Martin jumps on that as proving his point, I didn’t join the antiwar movement for the girls. However, I did join the TeenAge Republicans because of one. :smack:

Egotist te absolvo. Go, and sin no more. Unless, you know, she’s really hot and doesn’t call you “sir”.

Martin, I really must protest. West Point doesn’t allow cadets to take five years to graduate. And you admitted once that you never a regular undergraduate. And that was okay.

Your opinions seem to lose their punch when you get caught up in either claiming things that are obviously untrue or letting your anger be all that you really talk about. You do not have the insight, academic gifts, or self-control that are required at West Point. Not many people do.

“If you ain’t where you are you ain’t no place.” – Col. Sherman T. Potter

It revealed the ugly underbelly of the citizens . It showed who they really are. Beating people that show feeling for the civil rights of the blacks or the people we massacre in Viet Nam or Iraq demonstrates the ugly side of us. Calling them names to dehumanize them . That is the tactic of the warrior. We fought slants, chinks, gooks etc. We did not kill humans but a subclass inferior to us in every way.
There are board members here who use that tactic . Name calling is not a argument unless you are Rush or Fox TV fans.