Well, I’m no fan of poetry, or prose (which is what I call a-rhythmic rhymeless ‘poetry’) which is why my little piece of nonsense above is so awful.
I find a lot of it either to be pretentious, or incomprehensible, and when it’s without rhyme I can’t figure out why write it in all those broken lines and crap. What’s wrong with just making it a paragraph like any other writing?
Oh well. Like anyone’s gonna change their artistic endeavours on my account.
“Waheeey! ‘Duck!’ Get it?”
“Errr… No…”
“Duck! Sounds almost exactly like fu-”
TVeblen brings up some good points (and well put). The only thing I have to add is that I have no problem with people trying to express their thoughts and emotions in poetry. I just have a problem with them forcing it upon others.
Now if you can use words well. . .then it’s a different story. I’m not that arrogant that I won’t listen to a new voice.
Off the top of my head I don’t recall Cohen’s poetry - do you know of any good web respources for his writings(or should I do the work)?
GuanoLad: Poetry’s not for everyone. Schools should really stop shoving it down the throats of students. A huge amount of it (e.g., most of Browning, T.S.Elliot, Longfellow, etc.) is pretentious, self-indulgant drivel. There are, however, many poets who do not suffer from an overdeveloped ego.
There are few pleasures greater than discovering a suberb, new poet.
This could almost be a Great Debate about the pros/cons of poetry in general. Now to the issue at hand…a few thoughts I have.
Prose (free verse, or whatever you call it) has to me always seemed to be written in a way as to suggest how it should be read aloud. I used to hate free verse with a passion…then I read a poem in that style from a friend…the more I read it, the more the breaks made sense…as I would have paused had I been reciting it. True, it’s not for everyone, and sometimes I think the writers get carried away, but I understand the validity of the breaks and spaces. We’re so used to the written word, that some of the punctuation we use has lost it’s emphasis. Commas are a perfect example…I’ve had proffesors from my speach classes that debated with me about the placement of my commas when I would hand my papers in…almost always, I’d have to actually read it to them…with the emphasis where I wanted it, for them to understand.
Sake–
So you think that great artist/writers/poets/athletes/actors/etc. just spring out of their mothers naturally great at what they do?..I challenge you to name one person…anywhere…at any time that is/was considered great at what they do/did that didn’t spend some time perfecting their abilities.
Words are an expression of thought…and emotions…and shouldn’t be limited to what you think is valid. If I play softball with my company, then I’m an athlete…I’m an amature athlete, but still an athlete. Perhaps you think that those people that are “professional” poets take offense at those of us that strive to express ourselves in the same medium. I write poems occasionally…usually to express some emotion…(i.e. death of a relative)…by taking the time to write down what I feel, I also leave something that I can look back on. To remmeber how I felt at that time.
It seems to me that you are a lover of fine poety…much like some people are lovers of fine wines…and thats great, but something is keeping Bartles and James in business…
I haven’t lost my mind, I have a tape backup around somewhere.
Atrael: I practiced drums for years before I became competent enough to play in front of a crowd.
Practice is essential for artistic development. What I didn’t do, is practice for those first few years in front of people. I didn’t place wave samples of my mediocre fills on the Internet for all to download and I sure as hell didn’t consider myself a drummer until I had a command of the basic rudiments and started playing with bands writing original music.
Poetry is no different. My first batch of poetry in high school was as bad as everyone else’s. I didn’t even think of poetry as something elevated until I won some poetry and short story contest the school was running. Only then did I take it seriously.
Please see my thread “Beautiful…” in MPSIMS. I tear up every time I read those poems…of course I can hear them in my head with Cohen’s gravelly voice …I cant describe it.
Woops! anders: agreeing with me - and over on the Rosenbaum thread I just accused you of lacking a brain altogether.
Chaulk it up to the duality of man.
Next time, please summarily disagree with all of my posts so I can let the hatred slowly build into a mighty Tower of Babel which towers over the landscape of the petty and mundane only to rain terrible insults and crafty witticisms upon the ignorant, scrambling masses!
I think some of us are missing the point. The fact that a human being feels something that he/she HAS to express in some way OTHER than in nicely punctuated paragraphs and no run on sentences is the art. Joe Blow sees something so beautiful in the landscape or in some idea he has that he writes a terrible poem…THERES the art. Feelings experiences
And as far as Rhyme vs. Reason goes, I use Both. Sometimes i dont WANT to express my visions with meter and rhythm…sometimes my feelings are bent and misshapen therefore my poetry will be Asymmetrical…Its not about whether you liked my work or didnt like it… the fact taht you read it is enough. If it makes you see SOMETHING ANYTHING in your minds eye…then it has served its purpose.
But thats just me.
The whole CONCEPT of creativity is NOT following rules. If every friggin poet used Iambic pentameter as the SOLE framework for his poem…then ANYONE could do it. Formulas and structures are great…but so is freedom to just dip your pen in the inkwell of your soul and FLING that stuff on the page…
[sarcasm]
Yeah, look at all the people since Shakespeare who managed to write as well as he did. Since playing by the rules is formulaic and easy.
[/sarcasm]
Firstly, I agree that it’s ok to throw out the rules, Brithael. But if you never play by the rules your rebellion loses its meaning. There’s much more challenge in creating something within a framework. Splattering words onto paper is easy. Making iambic pentameter beautiful is not.
Secondly, please correct me if I misunderstood, but it sounds like you’re writing poetry specifically to be read and to evoke a response. Is an audience always required, or do you ever write for yourself?
-andros-
“Listen Children Eternal Father Eternally One!” Exceptions? None!
-Doc Bronner
You needn’t rebel to create (although it often helps, 'tis true). At least two of the sources that wrote the bible were following explicitly the rules of the early Catholic Church - wouldn’t you say they created something wonderful?
Same thing with “creating” a baby.
(Boy, don’t I sound wholesome!)
Within the bounds of tradition and laws one can still create.
Consider the auk;
Becoming extinct because he forgot how to fly and could only walk.
Consider man, who may well become extinct
Because he forgot how to walk and learned how to fly before he thinked.
