"Social Conservatives" and the Military

Not sure how “great” this is, but I figured it wasn’t really a factual question.

This thread reminded me of something I’ve been wondering about off and on for a few years now. I am what would be described as a “social conservative,” though I hate that phrase.* It seems to me that most of my fellow social conservatives, e.g. conservative Christians, take a generally positive view of the military. Nothing wrong with that: with the exception of a few small pacifist sects, most people agree that, however regrettable war is, a national defense force is necessary. And while I’ve never served myself, I’m sure that for many if not most who have, military service had a generally positive effect on their lives (teaching self discipline and so forth.) Nevertheless, some of what I’ve heard about military life would seem quite upsetting to those of a socially conservative mindset: the vulgarities and obscenities used during basic training, hazing rituals, the notorious lasciviousness of soldiers and sailors, etc.

For example: in the thread I linked above, many posters confirmed that, at least for a Marines drill sergeant in the 1960s, R. Lee Ermey’s character in Full Metal Jacket was more or less realistic. For those who don’t remember, going by my memory which admittedly relies on a 9-year-old viewing of the movie, the guy physically assaulted his recruits, called them horrible vulgarities like “motherfuckers” and “cocksuckers,” had them march to obscene cadences like “I don’t know but I’ve been told/Eskimo pussy is mighty cold…”, and generally treated them in a way that, to put it mildly, a conservative Christian would not be happy with. Now, both of my grandfathers served in the Army during WWII. One was a conservative evangelical Christian, the other probably a true fundamentalist (in other words, both would be lumped under the label “fundies” on this board.) As proud as I’m sure they both were to serve their country, I can’t imagine either of them being able to stomach being called “motherfucker” or “cocksucker,” or forced to chant about “Eskimo pussy.” Yet somehow, both of them apparently made it through basic training, and as far as I know, never had any bad things to say about the Army. (I can’t ask them now, as they’re both deceased.)

What gives here? Why do most of my fellow “social conservatives” have a positive view of the military, which apparently is an iniquitous den of obscene language and lewd behavior, at the same time we object to such stuff in popular entertainment or in our kids’ behavior? Anecdotes from actual “social conservatives,” or from ex-military folks who witnessed firsthand how their conservative Christian comrades dealt with such things, would be welcome.

*For one thing, it just sounds to me like it means “conservatives who frequent cocktail parties.” Basically, I think that 99% of the time, what the speaker really means is conservative Christians (and sometimes orthodox Jews.)

Isn’t that the point of calling someone a cocksucker?

Ironically, you typically don’t call someone a cocksucker because he sucks cock.

  1. People tend to be a bit more “liberal” in their social mores when their 19 yrs old. You see your grandfathers as older, mature men. Maybe they were a wee bit wilder in their youth.

  2. I’d bet that many Conservative Christians have never served in the military and have not experienced the things you describe. Although, according to my military buddies, drill sargents ain’t nothin’ like they used to be anymore. So perhaps this is less of an issue these days.

My anecdote: One of my good friends is a very devout Mormon. Brigham Young grad, 2 year missionary service, never swore, etc. Clean as a whistle to anyone who meets him. Don’t ever ask him to do something on Sunday-- it’s church all day. Yet, even though he never drank, he had no problem going out to bars and chasing women (before he was married). And, he didn’t confine his romantic activites to kissing and holding hands. I’d also note that he was an officer in the army, serving during Desert Storm.

I can confirm the “Eskimo pussy” chant was used in Army basic training during my time, 1969.

I think conservatives tend to support rules, order, tradition, institutions. So that may be why they support the military, sometimes beyond reason. Marine boot camp could be a solution to that attitude.

It’s an overstatement to say the US military is a iniquitous den of obscene language and lewd behavior, but most likely every military since the dawn of history had a good bit of that. It goes with work–you can get shot at or be ordered to shot at another human being, not something most people wish to experience in civilian life. You don’t want a bunch of choir boys defending you.