Social Security Question About Minors

[xvxdarkknightxvx]

My dad just retired and I have started recieving checks from social security(I’m 17). My dad, however, is divorced from my mom, and I live with my mom. My dad insists that the checks from social security are for my personal use and are considered my own money to do with as I please. My mom insists that the checks are for the upbringing of the children (my brother and I are both under 18), along with the money she already recieves from my dad for child support. Therefore, the money is for her personal use to buy stuff like clothes and food for my brother and me.

Which one is correct? These checks are about $490 each, and I wouldn’t mind having a little extra money come college time. Thanks for any help.

[Ice_Wolf]

Until someone familiar with your country’s Social Security regulations turns up, xvxdarkknightxvx, here’s a link to a “snapshot” page from the SSA:

Family Benefits

If you are eligible for retirement or disability benefits, other members of your family might receive benefits, too. These include: your spouse if he or she is at least 62 years old or under 62 but caring for a child under age 16; and your children if they are unmarried and under age 18, under 19 but still in school or 18 or older but disabled. If you are divorced, your ex-spouse could be eligible for benefits on your record.

It depends on the reason for the benefit, I would WAG.

[Early_Out]

Just an uninformed opinion, but I think that, if the checks are made out to you, xvxdarkknightxvx, then it’s your money, not your mother’s. If the money were supposed to be for “child support,” the checks would be made out to the parent who has custody, i.e., your mother.

[Wendell_Wagner]

Deposit the checks to your own checking account, but you are now responsible for your own expenses. This means that you have to buy your own clothes, your own food, etc. (Since there’s probably no way for your mother to precisely separate the food she buys at the supermarket for each member of your family, in practice that means that you will have to pay her something each week or month for food.) If you want to be really thorough about this, you can also pay her something for rent.

Is that $490 per month?

[Early_Out]

That’s a little over the top, Wendell, since his mother is already receiving child support checks from her ex. Those aren’t stopping, just because the SSA is now sending additional money. I agree, however, that the legal question of who that SSA money belongs to is not the same thing as the ethical question. However, as xvxdarkknightxvx says in his post, he intends to use that extra money for college expenses, which will benefit his mother, in any event. My opinion would be quite different if he said he was going to use the money as a down payment on a 'Vette!

[ftg]

Umm, who gets the check is determined first by the divorce decree/child support agreement for your particular case and then second by whomever’s check it is. If the settlement says the mother gets them, then she does, etc. Ditto if the checks are in lieu/part of child support. If the checks are not mentioned in the settlement or intended to replace the support, then the father (in this case) has 100% authority to decide how to distribute the money. Since the OP doesn’t mention the settlement terms, we are not in a position to figure out who gets what.

[MaryEFoo]

If your family is rolling in it, and the main question is who is going to have the fun, well that’s a matter for you and your family.

Two ways this question could be discussed. Are there SS regs that require the money to be spent first on food, clothing, shelter and education? I can’t answer that.

Use of the money otherwise? In the discussions, or negotiations, with your mother, you could make the case that paying for an education with it is a very good use of the money, and probably in line with the reason the SS checks fund you into college. You will be a resource to your family later when you have your increased educated income.

If she is scrimping at this time, it’s hard to cover the mortgage, food, doc’s bills, and she’s putting nothing into savings, or you can’t afford a neighborhood with good schools, well she has a point. Especially if you expect to use it as pocket money.

So there’s a lot of “it depends” in this post.
Oh yes, might your father get the child-support checks adjusted downward now he is retired? Is the child-support to end at age 18, age 21, through college, or what? If her income goes down and you’re away, will they be pushed to move to a place with one less bedroom?

[barbitu8]

*Originally posted by ftg *
**Umm, who gets the check is determined first by the divorce decree/child support agreement for your particular case and then second by whomever’s check it is. If the settlement says the mother gets them, then she does, etc. Ditto if the checks are in lieu/part of child support. If the checks are not mentioned in the settlement or intended to replace the support, then the father (in this case) has 100% authority to decide how to distribute the money. Since the OP doesn’t mention the settlement terms, we are not in a position to figure out who gets what. **

This is entirely bogus. Social Security laws (the Act, Regulations, and Rulings) determine who gets SS. Ice Wolf quoted the applicable regs. In the situation with a minor, normally the mother (in this case, since the minor lives with her) is made the representative payee. The checks are sent to her for your benefit, and they should be made out to her as representative payee. IT IS NOT FOR HER PERSONAL USE, but for your support. But neither is it for your personal use, as you may deem fit, such as buying drugs.

[doreen]

That’s a little over the top, Wendell, since his mother is already receiving child support checks from her ex. Those aren’t stopping, just because the SSA is now sending additional money.

Don’t be too sure about that. If the ex’s support payments are based on his income, it’s likely that he can have the amount decreased since he’s retired, whether it’s because his income is lower, the benefit is counted as part of his share or is added to the mother’s income or because the benefit is subtracted from the child’s needs.
But as far as the purpose of those checks- they are to provide for the child, not to be the child’s personal spending money.It’s easy enough to see when using a slightly different example- the OP’s parents are still married, father retires. Father gets a benefit and so do the OP and his brother. (mom’s depends on her age , the kids’ ages and maybe whether she is employed). Nobody would say in that case that the OP’s benefit was meant to be his personal spending money. It’s clearly meant to adjust the amount of the benefit to account for the size of the household it’s supposed to support.

[ftg]

I read the OP that the father was turning over his checks to the child. My reply was based on that. Clarifications of the OP are obviously in order.

I got SS (and VA) survivor benefits as a child and those received while under 18 were written out to my parent. They were my parent’s money to use for any purpose. Sometime after turning 18 I went thru the paperwork to get them put in my name and then they were mine to do with as I like. I have no idea if this bears on the present matter. (Esp. since survivor benefits for children over 18, and in school, were cut off by The Great Idiot President.)

[Polycarp]

We encountered this with a young man whose father (separated from his mother) was disabled and as a result their youngest son was entitled to SocSec payments.

The money is darkknight’s – but if he should fail to use it “wisely” either parent can petition to be made a “payee” who would manage the money for him. (Saving it for college is “using it wisely”; using a small proportion for recreational activities is still “using it wisely” so long as the majority of it is either saved or put towards necessities.

Even if his mother had complete control of it, she is entitled only to 10% of his check for household expenses – though it is his privilege – she may not compel him – to contribute more than that towards them.

This of course is the legal perspective – what he may or may not feel morally obligated to do in his and his mother’s situation is another question, on which none of us are competent to comment. (Is she working at minimum wage with no spending money on herself? Is she the beneficiary of a trust fund endowed by her millionare grandfather, lacking for nothing? Where inbetween does her condition really lie?)

Note that he is entitled to checks up through the month in which he turns 18, and if he is attending school (secondary or college) until the month of his graduation or of his 22nd birthday, whichever comes first.

[xvxdarkknightxvx]

OK, time for a little clarification. We have never really been that wealthy. When my parents got divorced, my mother asked for child-support paymetns below the minimum because she nkew my dad couldn’t pay the minimum. Since my dad’s Filipino, she believed that he would leave the country should he have to pay that much. Sicne my mom wanted us kids to have a father in the states, she requested less than the minimum. I guess she sees these checks as a sort of reimbursement for all the tougher times when she had to support my two sisters, one brother, and myself with below minimum child support.

Also, I’m not disabled…simply under 18, and my 18th birthday is in May. I’m just trying to see exactly who get’s to do what with the money. My brother (12), if the money is for himself, will have a lot by the time the checks stop.

So what I’m gathering from these posts is that the money is for my appropriate use, based on my judgement (no, I don’t do drugs). However, if my parents don’t think I’m using it wisely, they can get it changed so that they have control.

And yes, $490 per month.

[LurkMeister]

Long-time Social Security employee checking in here, just to clarify a few things.

Normally anyone under the age of 18 (or unable to handle their own finances due to age or disability) is required to have a representative payee. Usually in the case of a minor child the payee is a parent or other responsible adult with whom the child is living or is otherwise in a position to be aware of the child’s needs. I have seen cases where a minor child has successfully requested to be made their own payee when there is no suitable adult and the child has demonstrated the ability to responsibly handle their own finances.

Social Security benefits are intended to be used for the care and upkeep of the individual. Due to past abuses of the system, all representative payees are now required to file annual reports with Social Security verifying the amount of benefits spent on things like food, housing, and personal use. It is expected that at least 10% of the benefits paid is used for personal items (this includes clothing and entertainment expenses). If all of the benefits paid are not spent, any excess must be saved in an account in the child’s name for future use (such as college). I had one case where there was sufficient other income to support the child and the payee was depositing all of the Social Security benefits into a trust fund for the child’s college expenses.

Generally, except in cases where the child is disabled, benefits terminate at age 18. If the child is still attending high school, benefits can continue until the month the child graduates from high school. xxxdarkknightxxx, if you’re going to be 18 in May you should be receiving a letter soon regarding the future termination of your benefits and requesting that you notify SS if you will still be attending high school; if you are (not clear in your posts) be sure you do so, as this could mean an extra month or two of benefits, depending on whether you graduate in May or June. Student benefits are payable until high school graduation or up to two months after age 19.

Note to Polycarp: student benefits used to be payable until age 22 or college graduation but this was changed back in the 80s. There was a “phase-out” period of several years which was an administrative nightmare for those of us who had to figure out benefits payable.

[barbitu8]

§404.2035 Responsibilities of a representative payee.
A representative payee has a responsibility to—

(a) Use the payments he or she receives only for the use and benefit of the beneficiary in a manner and for the purposes he or she determines, under the guidelines in this subpart, to be in the best interests of the beneficiary;

(b) Notify us of any event that will affect the amount of benefits the beneficiary receives or the right of the beneficiary to receive benefits;

© Submit to us, upon our request, a written report accounting for the benefits received; and

(d) Notify us of any change in his or her circumstances that would affect performance of the payee responsibilities.

§404.2040 Use of benefit payments.
(a) Current maintenance. (1) We will consider that payments we certify to a representative payee have been used for the use and benefit of the beneficiary if they are used for the beneficiary’s current maintenance. Current maintenance includes cost incurred in obtaining food, shelter, clothing, medical care, and personal comfort items.

Example: An aged beneficiary is entitled to a monthly Social Security benefit of $400. Her son, who is her payee, disburses her benefits in the following manner:

Rent and utilities $200
Medical 25
Food 60
Clothing (coat) 55
Savings 30
Miscellaneous 30

The above expenditures would represent proper disbursements on behalf of the beneficiary.

(2) Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph (a)(1) of this section, if a beneficiary is a member of an Aid to Families With Dependent Children (AFDC) assistance unit, we do not consider it inappropriate for a representative payee to make the benefit payments available to the AFDC assistance unit.

(b) Institutional care. If a beneficiary is receiving care in a Federal, State, or private institution because of mental or physical incapacity, current maintenance includes the customary charges made by the institution, as well as expenditures for those items which will aid in the beneficiary’s recovery or release from the institution or expenses for personal needs which will improve the beneficiary’s conditions while in the institution.

Example: An institutionalized beneficiary is entitled to a monthly Social Security benefit of $320. The institution charges $700 a month for room and board. The beneficiary’s brother, who is the payee, learns the beneficiary needs new shoes and does not have any funds to purchase miscellaneous items at the institution’s canteen.

The payee takes his brother to town and buys him a pair of shoes for $29. He also takes the beneficiary to see a movie which costs $3. When they return to the institution, the payee gives his brother $3 to be used at the canteen.

Although the payee normally withholds only $25 a month from Social Security benefit for the beneficiary’s personal needs, this month the payee deducted the above expenditures and paid the institution $10 less than he usually pays.

The above expenditures represent what we would consider to be proper expenditures for current maintenance.

© Support of legal dependents. If the current maintenance needs of the beneficiary are met, the payee may use part of the payments for the support of the beneficiary’s legally dependent spouse, child, and/or parent.

Example: A disabled beneficiary receives a Veterans Administration (VA) benefit of $325 and a Social Security benefit of $525. The beneficiary resides in a VA hospital and his VA benefits are sufficient to provide for all of his needs; i.e., cost of care and personal needs. The beneficiary’s legal dependents—his wife and two children—have a total income of $250 per month in Social Security benefits. However, they have expenses of approximately $450 per month.

Because the VA benefits are sufficient to meet the beneficiary’s needs, it would be appropriate to use part of his Social Security benefits to support his dependents.

(d) Claims of creditors. A payee may not be required to use benefit payments to satisfy a debt of the beneficiary, if the debt arose prior to the first month for which payments are certified to a payee. If the debt arose prior to this time, a payee may satisfy it only if the current and reasonably foreseeable needs of the beneficiary are met.

Example: A retroactive Social Security check in the amount of $1,640, representing benefits due for July 1980 through January 1981, was issued on behalf of the beneficiary to the beneficiary’s aunt who is the representative payee. The check was certified in February 1981.

The nursing home, where the beneficiary resides, submitted a bill for $1,139 to the payee for maintenance expenses the beneficiary incurred during the period from June 1980 through November 1980. (Maintenance charges for December 1980 through February 1981 had previously been paid.)

Because the benefits were not required for the beneficiary’s current maintenance, the payee had previously saved over $500 for the beneficiary and the beneficiary had no foreseeable needs which would require large disbursements, the expenditure for the maintenance charges would be consistent with our guidelines.

[47 FR 30472, July 14, 1982, as amended at 54 FR 35483, Aug. 28, 1989]

The checks should be issuing to the mother, not to the minor, but she has the fiduciary duties noted above.

[handy]

"The checks should be issuing to the mother, not to the minor, "

Yes, the checks should have HER name on them first & then his name on them. I remember getting the checks this way. In other words, both of their names should be on it. My mother took the money for expenses, then at 18 only my name was on the check. But then she charged me rent & food…lol

[Hermann_Cheruscan]

I had absolutely no idea that the minor children of a SS recipient could get social security.

[xvxdarkknightxvx]

OK, great. Thanks for all the helpful replies. This clears up a lot. I will still be going to high school until June, so I’ll check for the letter that should be coming. I guess I’ll ask my mom for 10% of the check as a monthly allowance? I suppose that would be allowed by the rules.

[Polycarp]

Note to Polycarp: student benefits used to be payable until age 22 or college graduation but this was changed back in the 80s. There was a “phase-out” period of several years which was an administrative nightmare for those of us who had to figure out benefits payable.

Lurkmeister and Darkknight, sorry for providing outdated information!

From the sounds of what Lurkmeister said, it sounds like you’re entitled to that 10% allowance – though $49 a month is not exactly something you can paint the town red with!

[LurkMeister]

*Originally posted by Hermann Cheruscan *
**I had absolutely no idea that the minor children of a SS recipient could get social security. **

You’re not alone; a lot of people out there are eligible for benefits but never file for them because they don’t realize it. Not as many now as there used to be, due to more aggressive information dissemination including the website linked above and the toll free info number (1-800-772-1213) over the last ten years.

I used to be amazed at the number of people who didn’t bother to file for Social Security disability benefits until they were no longer receiving disability pay or had spent all their savings and were on the verge of bankruptcy.

[Dinsdale]

Fer crying out loud, Lurkmeister! Just what we need is to convince more folks to apply for disab. And let’s get all them ADHD/ODD kids on SSI as well! Not sure why we had to kick off all them boozers and druggies. Weren’t that many of them anyway. Fortunately, we are learning that the majority of them were simply depressed in the first place!

Good thing this question came in over the weekend. Answering it would be too much like work for me - something I generally try to avoid!