My roommates/landlords here in NJ are planning to install a solar power arrangement at their new house. They are environmentally concerned and I guess they also hope it might save some money.
All good so far. She (Mrs Roommate) just asked me about a solar system they were considering, but are somewhat skeptical about. I was asked because I know a bit about wiring and electrical stuff, and have managed to do electrical work in the past without burning my house down or killing myself. I’ve succeeded in avoiding these disasters because I know when to admit that a task is simply well beyond my limited capabilities. The question they have just asked me forces such an admission.
OK, so, I don’t know whether this solar system would be any good. Basically it appeals because it is relatively cheap and simple to install. The idea is that you set up the panels and plug them into an outlet. And yet, and yet, that seems just too simple to me. Is it? Can it really be that easy?
I have some concerns - how does the breaker box handle this sort of thing? Does adding a second phase present any risk? And will the damn thing work as advertised?
Those are my GQs, along with anything else I haven’t though of yet. Here’s a link to the system:
Well, a quick look at that site shows that it is not just plugged into an outlet, but “connected at the building load center” – that is, wired into the breaker panel.
Also, it’s not just a solar panel – the unit contains a built-in inverter to convert the solar DC into standard 2-phase 240V AC.
Doesn’t seem much different from other Solar panels, except being all in a single unit, and supposedly you can fold it up and take it with you when you move. But you seem to be paying a premium price for that.
On the topic of saving money, I quote from the site: “Without considering any of these benefits, a Blue Link 480 located in the northeast U.S. will save about $80 per year in electricity. In the sunniest parts of the country or where utility rates are high, it might save $120 per year.” (They don’t indicate which unit these estimates apply to, so I’m assuming the Bluelink 960.) The price of the system is:Bluelink 480
$4,650.00 + $450 shipping
Bluelink 960
$8,650.00 + $800 shipping
Add in whatever tax incentives or subsidies you get from your utility or local government and do the math. I suspect it is unlikely to pay for itself in the near term, and while I haven’t look at PV solar for a while, this sounds kind of pricey for what they offer. The efficiency is also sensitive to where and how the unit is placed. It needs to be oriented so as to get minimum angle incidence through overall solar travel. Just tossing it out on a balcony or in the back yard may not give you good results.
It’s nice that they’re all for the environment, but so are people who believe recycling glass bottles is saving energy and precious resources. This sounds like a rather poorly thought-out plan by your landlord and roommates. They should do more research into solar so they can make an informed decision that does more than feel-green top spinning.
The first time a solar cell system costs close to what you’d pay in buying utility power, it won’t need advertising. Every news source will cover the product. You don’t save money by using solar cells at this time.
Sound eerily similar to what GM said about hybrid cars a few years ago. Of course, gasoline was $1.50/gal. at the time.
That being said, the way to make solar power pay off more quickly is to get a sufficient system, have it properly connected to the grid by qualified installers, realize the incentives and the tax credits, and sell unused power back to the power company. That process requires professionals, application forms, approvals and permits. It’s not an unfold and plug-in process. For the right system the tax credits and incentives are quite substantial.
Hybrid cars were also more expensive at the time. As technologies mature, they get cheaper, and the same will no doubt occur for solar panels. It just hasn’t happened yet.
Now, the way technologies mature is by early adopters buying them before they actually become profitable, providing the companies that make them the funds for further R&D. So there’s still a good reason to buy things like solar panels, if you want to be part of that process. Just don’t delude yourself about them.
Solar panels seem to be going for around $5 a watt. http://www.solarbuzz.com/Moduleprices.htm
Generally you get about 6 hours of sun a day with fixed panels (panels that don’t rotate to track the sun). That $5 will give you around 2.19 kWh per year.
So at 14 cents a kWh it will take about 16.3 years to pay back the panels. Then there is the cost of the inverter and installation which also need to be paid back. You should also take into account that the cost of electricity is unlikely to remain the same but will instead rise making the payback come sooner.
How much cleaning do these things need? Are they coated such that stuff like bird shit doesn’t stick? Panels like the one in the OP would be quite easy to clean, but I’m wondering about ones on a roof.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t solar panel efficiency degrade significantly over time.? That would extend your figure considerably depending on how fast they degrade. Nevermind the maintenance cost of a hail storm should you be in an area where such things occur.
No, there is no time value of money included in those calculations.
Just $5 /(2.19 KWh / year * $0.14/kWhr) = 16.3 years.
Although as I said I also did not include the rising cost of electricity so depending on your beliefs about that vs the interest you can get for you money invested in other ways it may or may not be a wash.
Is a pretty good site for these things. It has lots has guides on various losses and how they affect the calculations. One of the good things about that site is that it has data for real amount of sun you will be getting where you are. And give you a month by month idea of how much power you will get out of you system.
I will note that the 960 and 480 in the OP are Watts for the system so the systems listed are significantly above the $5 a watt panel price from my first link. I believe that they include the cost of the inverter.
Yes, the advertised cost includes the inverter. I know enough about electrics to check that out.
I do worry about whether the system will work as advertised, but I haven’t been tasked with figuring out whether the idea of installing solar is inherently good or bad.
That said, while they are concerned for the environment, I doubt they’d be prepared to bankrupt themselves over this specific matter. It seems that people here are saying that recovering installation costs would be difficult if not impossible. Mr Roommate has a job that pays him an amount that is none of my business, but apparently rises above the level of “flat broke poverty line”. It seems to me that the general advice is that, as an economic proposition, this idea makes little sense.