Some advice to hypocritical priests/politicians/spokespeople caught in affairs

I do not think that any reasonable person would see this as “placing an occasional bet on the ponies” is destructive to the family. Had I said “alcohol can be proven to destroy families” it would be clear that I was referring to excessive intake, not an occasional Margarita. The context clearly implied “excessive” gambling, which $8 million is reasonably construed to be “excessive”.

Whether $8 million is excessive to Bennet or not is another argument. Certainly $8 million would be enough to generate an easy six-figure per year amount that would feed thousands of people or pay the medical bills of hundreds of people without health insurance or build a very nice church or supply an entire village indefinitely with medical supplies, all of which would seem more in keeping with what most people consider “virtue”.

My father was an alcoholic whose addiction probably hastened his death. He never once drove a car while intoxicated, he never missed a day of work due to a hangover, he drank while on duty or put a strain on the family finances due to his alcoholism, so by your standards his alcoholism had no ill effect on his family and, since he could afford it and it did not affect him professionally, the fact that he often passed out at night did not mean he drank excessively.

Whether an extremely rich man who preaches Christian values is a hypocrite or not is for Great Debates. I would argue that it in fact is hypocrisy when you venerate a man who owned a coat (which was gambled for) and preached charity and is considered by Christians to be the most important figure in a text that has more than 3,000 references to the virtue of giving generously to the poor, but this thread is already hijacked enough.

Who gives a rat’s ass?

His money. He’s perfectly free to take his money into the kitchen and shove it into the garbage disposal… and he’s not a HYPOCRITE for doing so. Idiot? Sure. Hypocrite? No.

Could it be that people who are having trouble with this concept don’t really understand the word “hypocrite?” Do they just think it’s “something bad” and since Bennet did “something bad” it must fit?

The word hypocrite has a very specific meaning. Bennet may be unwise, he may be sanctimonious, he may be many things… but not a hypocrite.

This may help:

He’s not an arsonist… even though arson is bad.
He is judgemental… and yes, judgemental can be bad.
He’s not a felon… even though felonies are bad things.
He is financially foolish.
He is irritating.
He’s NOT A HYPOCRITE.

See how this works? You take the word, figure out what it means, and apply that meaning to Bennet’s behavior.

It’s very simple.

should read “he NEVER drank while on duty”, etc…

This is easily the most idiotic argument that you have ever used Bricker.

$8 million dollars is a lot of money. Maybe if the ante was a half a mil, or if he was playing the 100k slot machines. Then maybe I could see that $8 million dollars was not excessive, but probably not.

8 million if anything is a lot. Pissing away $8 million dollars indicates a problem. I don’t care if he was as rich as Gates. That’s messed up in a very serious way.

I don’t presume to pass judgement on your father’s addiction, or lack thereof. But from your description I’d say he drank to excess… but that he wasn’t a hypocrite, unless he condemned drinking to excess.

No, I don’t agree. $8 million even in one night is not excessive to some people, and Bennett’s $8 million occurred over the course of YEARS. And where do you get off telling someone of Gate’s wealth that it’s “messed up” for him to lose $8 million in a night. It’s HIS money. He can take a shit in the street and wipe his ass with $100 bills, if he wants.

In this case, it’s Bennett’s money. As long as he meets his responsibilities, he’s free to do what he pleases with it. And again, the issue is HYPOCRISY. Even if I concede that it’s “messed up” it has nothing whatsoever to do with the charge of hypocrisy.

Well, Bennett should, because he promotes a virtuous code that involves moderation, charity and caring.

Let’s look at it symbolically.

Bennett (B) promotes Traditional Virtue (V).

Traditional Virtue (V) includes Moderation, Charity and, for that matter, Frugality [Benjamin Franklin’s essays, which majorly promote frugality and moderation, were in fact included in the book that Bennett endorsed and attached his name to)(M)

Therefore B promotes M, yes?

There is nothing moderate or charitable or frugal about disposing of $8 million through casino gambling (casino gambling, incidentally- here’s a very little known fact but I’ll bet if you google really hard you can find a cite- is an industry that has some “investors” and “stakeholders” who- now I know this sounds outlandish, but it’s true- are actually criminals [yes, I know I’m risking my life by making such a bold claim, but the Mafia actually has strong interests in much of such a virtuous pasttime as legalized gambling)
Since it is not M, let us signify it as ~M [since I can’t remember how to make the “not” symbol on a keyboard)

B promotes V
V = M
~M = ~V

B promotes V
B practices ~V
B is a hypocrite.

Oh please. You seem to think one can only be a hypocrite if they preach against a particular vice they indulge in. In Bennett’s case, he professes a more general idea of virtue. Judging from his writings and statements, he likely holds the Seven Heavenly Virtues as ideals. Since they include charity and temperance, it follows that gambling would be a violation of the ideal. The hypcrisy comes from his denouncing others who don’t reach the ideal, when he himself does not. Gambling itself doesn’t make him a hypocrite, it’s the denoucement of others for failing to be perfect when he is not either.

I’m not talking about hypocrisy here. I’m addressing your idiot argument. If he feels like taking a shit and wiping his ass with $100 dollar bills, then it’s his nasty business. In my non-expert opinion, losing $8 million dollars could be indicative of a gambling problem. Either that or he really does not know when to quit. Either way, messed up. Satisfactory, or do you really think that * million is not a large number?

I should also say that losing that much money would involve gambling to excess unless he lost it all in one spin of the wheel of fortune which would still be extraordinarily stupid of him.

No matter how you slice it, there is great excess afoot here.

I define hypocrisy as preaching against a particular vice indulged in.

And promoting virtue is not the same as denouncing the unvirtuous. I am not familiar enough with Bennett to make any claim about whether he denounced the unvirtuous, specifically gamblers.

Still his digits?

To the best of my knowledge Jimmy Swaggart never specifically preached against patronizing cheap whores in Baton Rouge, Jim Bakker against having affairs with church secretaries, Henry Hyde and Helena Chenoweth against non-presidents having adulterous affairs, etc., so they’re not hypocrites either.

Did anybody bother to read or browse through Book of Virtues? Again, Bennett attached his name to this book (and made millions from it). It included readings whole sections on Responsibility (a section including, as I mentioned, Franklin’s advice which included frugality and moderation) and Compassion (including several about charity and helping others to the utmost of your ability). How responsible is it and how compassionate is it to piss away $8 million that could benefit others to one of the most corrupt legal industries in the world?

Maybe we need to look at the definition of hypocrisy. It is not “preaching against a particular vice indulged in.” Webster says hypocrisy is:

“a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion.”

Bennett, a person who spoke out for the need to set “boundaries” on our “appetites”, and who decried many social problems linked to gambling, turns around once his gambling problem is outed and says well, it’s OK, I can handle it (the non-elite rabble not qualifying for this exception). He obviously did not believe in the principles he espoused.

Conclusion: hypocrite.
Michael Kinsley, among others, had him nailed.*

"He never specifically criticized gambling. This, if true, doesn’t show that Bennett is not a hypocrite. It just shows that he’s not a complete idiot. Working his way down the list of other people’s pleasures, weaknesses, and uses of American freedom, he just happened to skip over his own. How convenient. Is there some reason why his general intolerance of the standard vices does not apply to this one? None that he’s ever mentioned…Empower America, one of Bennett’s several shirt-pocket mass movements, officially opposes the spread of legalized gambling, and the Index of Leading Cultural Indicators, one of Bennett’s cleverer PR conceits, includes “problem” gambling as a negative indicator of cultural health. So, Bennett doesn’t believe that gambling is harmless. He just believes that his own gambling is harmless. But by the standards he applies to everything else, it is not harmless.

Bennett has been especially critical of libertarian sentiments coming from intellectuals and the media elite. Smoking a bit of pot may not ruin their middle-class lives, but by smoking pot, they create an atmosphere of toleration that can be disastrous for others who are not so well-grounded. The Bill Bennett who can ooze disdain over this is the same Bill Bennett who apparently thinks he has no connection to all those “problem” gamblers because he makes millions preaching virtue and they don’t."*

To get back to the OP, this lesson for public figures caught doing something sleazy needs to be emphasized: don’t try to get off the hook by claiming that you are a personal exception to the rules you lay down for other people.

Let me ask this.

If it were discovered that Bennett never gambled, but he ate a pint of Ben and Jerry’s ice cream every night, would he be a hypocrite?

Oh :stuck_out_tongue:
I guess the TV series don’t follow the book. :smack:

No.

This is a strawman argument. Bennett is perfectly capable of stating precisely what he is promoting, and does not need you to speculate on what he means by traditional virtue. You show me a quote from Bennett that says he endorses frugality and moderation, and I’ll agree he’s a hypocrite. As long as it’s you writing his lines, I’m sorry to say I’m not on board.

Same strawman problem. You may feel that he likely holds the Seven Heavenly Virtues as ideals. Where does HE say he does?

You’d be hard pressed to find any quote from Bennett in his Books of Virtues as they’re not his writing. They’re readers, compiled of previously printed information (most of it copyright free) with introductions by Bennett extolling them. Included in one of them, as I mentioned, is Franklin’s

Oh fuck it, this is a go nowhere argument because neither of us is going to yield.

Ridiculous.

Swaggert preached against prostitution, and patronized a prostitute. Bakker preached against adultery, and had an adulterous affair. Those are both hypocritical actions. The distinction of “cheap whore, in Bathon Rouge” doesn’t distinguish the case at all.

Bennett did not preach against gambling. Period.

It’s his choice. I gamble. Are you accusing me of being irresponsible and uncompassionate? If not, at what dollar figure do I become so? You’re inventing your own definitions here.