I still wonder if they still see Hillary as the exact equivalent of Trump, or dismiss social non-economic issues as irrelevant and stupid.
I don’t know, my Bernie friend just shared this picture though and I have no idea what the hell it’s implying.
I would vote for Jabba the Hutt over Donald Trump.
Sanders is Obi-Wan, Hillary is Palpatine, and Trump is Jabba The Hutt.
It’s the same stupid “Hillary is totally evil” crap we keep seeing. To your stupid friend: yes, you fuckwit, it is in fact your fault.
They aren’t progressives, they are anti-establishment. Anything that will disrupt the system will bring good. The government is corrupt, so anything else will be better. They lack the political perspective and common sense to understand that tearing out the establishment seldom brings anything better - particularly in the short term.
And it isn’t a surprise that its predominately white men. They were the biggest benefactors of the old establishment, the ones that have seen the fewest gains in incremental change.
Judging from the last umpteen months of “Just wait until Sanders wins [state] by 130% and takes the lead in delegates!”, math doesn’t seem to be the strong suite for many of these people.
Precisely, there is no way that Clinton, or any other candidate that has realizable goals would ever be able to get the vote of this subset. They’re a lost cause. Let them sit alone demanding to be pandered to and whining that the fact that they are in the minority means that the election is rigged against them. While we work towards winning votes of people who are actually willing try to take achievable steps progressive goals.
Well, I mean, I got that much. It just doesn’t make much sense.
what’s the point of half measures though? The end game for progressives is universal healthcare, education, and equality. If you’re voting for the person who has shittier goals because you think she’ll be more likely to enact them, you’re being kinda lazy. You’re going to get shortchanged by an oppositional congress no matter what, might as well go for the guy who wants to actually make America a first world country
Lazy, practical, realistic, pragmatic, whatever.
And you don’t get to your endgame by taking the king in your first move. The game doesn’t work that way. Sometimes it goes faster, sometimes it goes slower - but you start by moving pawns and - unless your opposition is dumber than soap - taking out smaller pieces.
OK, go ahead and vote for Bernie Sanders. Except Bernie Sanders lost. Hillary Clinton got more votes and more delegates. So the choice isn’t between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, the choice is between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump.
If Bernie Sanders can’t win the Democratic nomination, he’s not going to win the general election. Oh, the Democratic establishment didn’t support him during the primaries? Yeah, that happens when you run for office. You wanna be the Democratic nominee you’ve got to force those guys to support you, by kicking the shit out of their favorite nominee. Like, you know, Trump did to Jeb and Rubio.
If you get a lot more people to vote for you, then it doesn’t matter that the establishment wanted Clinton and worked for her and against you. You want to make a permanent change you’ve got to replace the Democratic establishment with people who support your positions. And that means winning elections–not just for the presidency but for the House and Senate and governorships and state houses and mayors and city councils.
This is how you build a movement. Take a look at Sander’s actual political career. He’s lost plenty of races. After you lose you get up and start over. You think the political class is an entrenched oligarchy? Yeah, and? OK, it’s an entrenched oligarchy. You don’t defeat an entrenched oligarchy by winning one election. You’ve got to replace those guys. And quitting in tears because the entrenched oligarchs didn’t play fair and supported one of their own instead of the guy who would have upset the applecart is…well, it’s not exactly productive, is it?
An entrenched oligarchy is going to protect itself. They aren’t going to act as impartial referees, are they? So you have to out-organize them. If you can’t out-organize them, you’re going to fail. And Bernie failed to get nominated, despite coming a lot closer than people would have expected a year ago.
So go ahead and stay home in November, on the grounds that Hillary is just as bad as Trump. No, Hillary’s worse, because she’s not obviously terrible! Since Trump is so obviously bad, it will turn everyone in America into a liberal progressive socialist! And then we’ll win the next election in a landslide!
This is Underpants Gnome level logic.
America Is Already Great Enough, is what my hat would say, and it’s sure as fuck first-world. Pretty much textbook definition even*.
*Didn’t bother to quote that nonsense, cause, you know, it was nonsense.
And can you pay for a “free pony for all”?
I’m all in on universal healthcare. And IMHO it will probably be a net wash 5 year after it’s enacted. Frankly, I’m for a European style planned socialism with corresponding increase in taxes.
Bernie’s plans are economically unworkable if fully enacted. Someone has to pay for all this stuff. For example, personally, I don’t think college should be free. Actually, old fart hat on, I think one should be able to go to college, work part time jobs, live lean and get out with $10-20k worth of manageable debt (which I was able to do). Separates those that want a free ride for 4 years and those that want to earn it. Difference in cost to the taxpayers is huge.
I have a friend who is a public personality - which means he has thousands of Facebook followers. And he is a Hillary supporter. And male. And he had to stop posting his support. People were NASTY.