The way the Democratic establishment is treating Bernie supporters is a blunder.

Politics & Elections
1

And by establishment, in this case, I’m also talking about people who demand loyalty to the party and support for Clinton.

I originally wrote this in a discussion in this thread. The original post which got me started in that thread was this

Which continued a discussion on various issues, including the idea that Bernie supporters have an obligation to be loyal to the democratic party.

Here’s what I wrote:

I’m kind of amazed that you guys don’t see that you’re losing a young generation that wants to be politically active.

They voted for Obama because he promised hope and change and seemed like a different sort of politician - not at all business as usual. And they were disappointed, he mostly governed as though he were a firm part of the establishment. We can argue about Obama’s success as a president, but he certainly wasn’t the radically different candidate that a lot of his supporters hoped.

So this time around they turned to a guy who no one can doubt his credentials as something different, as anti-establishment. The guy became a senator outside of either of the major parties, and that’s pretty incredible. He has decades of proving that he is as dedicated a public servant as there can be. I don’t think anyone can question is sincerity and integrity.

People are clamoring for him because he’s what we hoped Obama would be, at least in terms of a sincere player who isn’t beholden to the plutocratic interests that have controlled our politics so thoroughly. They know that Bernie wouldn’t do a sudden 180 when he got in the white house.

To these people, Hillary Clinton is the worst candidate. She is the polar opposite in this regard. She’s a slimey politician who lies every day, who evades, who changes her opinions when her focus groups tell her so. She’s been in bed with the financial sector of our economy our whole career. She’s as bought as any politician can be. She is, through and through, a tool of the establishment and a crony.

So you have this growing, passionate group who’s dedicated to having anything other than the same old same old, and you’re saying “ok you silly kids, you had your fun, but now it’s time for you to fall in lockstep and the exact opposite of the thing that has made you so interested in politics and so passionate. It’s time to put away your silly notions about changing the way things are done in Washington. Clinton is going to happen. It’s time to bend over and take it”, and then you say THEY’RE the bad guys because they don’t feel an undying loyalty to a party that doesn’t represent them.

All the while, you’ve been sneering at them and questioning their motives, calling them “Bernie Bros”, treating them like idiot children. And then you demand their loyalty. And the best argument you’ve got is “you know how shitty we’ve been to you, and how much you dislike our candidate? Well the other one is probably worse. So haha, you’re stuck. Bend over and take it.”

Not only are you taking interested young politically passionate people and breaking their spirit, you’re making them disgusted at your party. And it’s exactly the wrong approach to take with Trump as the other guy. Because after months of belittling them and insulting them and telling them they’re obligated to now support you, they’re going to be pretty fucking ready to buck the establishment. And you know who’s left in the race who appeals to such voters?

You could’ve gotten any incredible boost from this influx of young, socially progressive, extremely motivated new voters. Instead you condescended to them and demanded fealty even though you had no intention of representing their interest. You call them “entitled millenials” when they even ask you why they should vote for your side if you don’t care about any of the issues they care about.

It’s not the people who refuse to vote for Hillary that are cutting off their nose to spite their face. It’s you, the party establishment and Clinton supporters, who ridiculed and belittled Bernie supporters and tried to convince them they ha no choice but to be loyal to you, and they’re in the wrong if they aren’t. It’s a completely self-inflicted wound, and you’re all too smug to see it.

2

The idea that they’re “losing” anyone has yet to be determined. Young voters say they overwhelmingly support Clinton over Trump. Most Sanders supporters say that they’d vote for Clinton in the general (and that number is always artificially low due to petulance when asked vs actual voting come November).

So it’s hard to get on board with the “You’re abusing these voters and losing them forever” argument when that doesn’t seem to actually be the case.

3

This sounds like some Hillary supporters, but far from all of them, and certainly far from a group as large as the Democratic establishment.

So yes, some Hillary supporters have been assholes, but just some, not nearly all, and not nearly the entire party or party establishment.

4

I don’t think we’re appealing to “party loyalty.” In my case, I actually prefer Sanders to Clinton in many ways. But, he didn’t win and won’t win the Primary. So, I’m appealing to love of country and sanity to say, “let’s unite around Clinton so we don’t have a President Cruz or Trump.” Everyone one who supports Bernie should enthusiastically share that view. I don’t see anyone “demanding” such support, but it would be a crying shame if Sanders voters didn’t come around.

5

So basically, SenorBeef, you’re pissed at some Hillary supporters. But that has nothing to do with me – I haven’t committed any of these sins you complain of, and neither have most other Hillary supporters. We’ll ask you to support Hillary because she’s a much better choice for the country than the alternative. Hopefully you’ll make a choice based on what’s best for the country, and not what some assholes said who happen to have been supporters of Bernie’s opponent.

6

Often coupled with even the most polite "hold your nose and vote for the lesser of two evils " is that any third party or protest vote is throwing away your vote. Do you agree with that iiandyiii and Procrustus?

7

They are bad, naughty children who have to be shamed and shaken into doing the right thing.
Wanting their own beliefs is pure selfishness and entitlement; once they’ve voted the right way they will be more than satisfied with what the adults have decided, and can come back chastened in four years to enthusiastically vote as the Party tells them.

People not infrequently become intoxicated by such successes; they become dizzy with success, loose all sense of proportion and the capacity to understand realities; they show a tendency to overrate their own strength and to underrate the strength of the enemy; adventurist attempts are made to solve all questions of progressive construction “in a trice.” In such a case, there is no room for concern to consolidate the successes achieved and to utilise them systematically for further advancement. Why should we consolidate the successes achieved when, as it is, we can dash to the full victory of progressivism “in a trice”: “We can achieve anything !”, “There is nothing we can’t do !”

Hence the Party’s task is to wage a determined struggle against these sentiments, which are dangerous and harmful to our cause, and to drive them out of the Party.

8

Here is the thing: they are not going to get that candidate, ever. And if by some miracle they did it would be a huge failure. You are asking us to embrace the GOP policy of promising people things you can’t deliver and wouldn’t if you could. If that is the only thing that drives those enthusiastic young people to the polls then we really have nothing to offer them, instead we can just wait for them to grow up and join the democratic process for real reasons.

9

By the way, I’d like to harken back to this thread, in which SenorBeef asserts that the only possible reason that black Democrats overwhelmingly preferred Hillary Clinton could be that they were low information – refusing to accept the possibility that maybe most black voters analyzed the issues and rhetoric and preferred Hillary’s approach.

That sounds pretty much exactly like what he’s complaining about in this thread.

10

Sometimes. It probably depends on the state and locality – in a swing state, generally I’d answer “yes”. In this case, that would only apply if one believes that Hillary would be much less bad for the country than Trump, but still chooses to vote for someone else. In my opinion, anyway.

11

If necessary. However, I actually think Mrs. Clinton is “petty good” and not merely the lessor of two evils.

I think she would appoint good judges and cabinet officials, and generally run the executive branch competently. I’m not looking for a revolution.

12

Bernie decided to run as a Democrat- and from the beginning and from his actions- it appeared that it was to promote the issues that many people felt needed a national platform for recognition. Part of the decision to run as a Democrat, and to have the amenities of the party included a give and take- use of the democratic database of voters, participate in the democratic debates, have use of democratic funds- and of course- be able to say that you ARE A DEMOCRAT.

So part of the give is campaigning down ticket and raising funds for them as well, which Bernie says he MIGHT do. Oh and guess what, if YOU don’t get picked- throw your support behind the person who did- which he now says he cant make anyone vote for her-true but your support could help…(which actually- who knows how much his support is worth at this point)

This thing of losing potentially disenchanted and disillusioned newly minted into the political process young people is what you are saying the democratic party is in danger of losing. Well guess who made you guys like that ? Bernie Sanders. That is the worst thing he has done from day one. The pied piper of promises, that one right there.

He fed you some strong lines about how he would demolish Wall Street and he doesn’t take big money and all that changes that go into that. How naïve do you have to be to believe one man is going to change that? Seriously- its like a fairy tale and then you wonder why you are treated like children? Could it be because the response to the inevitable loss of your candidate is similar to “I’ll take my toys and go home?” So Bernie isn’t the candidate and you’re going to sit it out? or write him in?? are you kidding me? this isn’t grade school where you check here if you like me and someone makes an additional box and writes maybe…

Tell me again how Hillary lies every day and evades and changes her opinion to what the people want, because last I heard, a politician doesn’t tell people what they need- they ask what they need and change to make it happen. Having the ability to change, grow and compromise are the characteristics of an adult, and truly that is what some of the Bernie supporters are refusing to acknowledge.

13

One data point here. I am not a young Bernie supporter but an older one who pragmatically was going to support Clinton as I’d considered myself a democrat. I’m not vocal about my support for Bernie, no social media, no signs etc but what has happened is I find myself and fellow supporters being disparigingly called Bernie Bros. This is the classic tactic of marginalizing your foes to silence them and this time is way to close to the Donald’s tactics for me to be in any way comfortable with it.

You know, why would someone support a party that clearly mocks them and their views and expects them to take it and vote for them not because they respect their views and will defend them but rather because they’re better than the other guy? Democrats clearly aren’t interested in my ideas simply my vote come November. Well, they’re not getting it.

I’m not going to vote. I reject that I have to vote for anybody hostile towards me so I’m not voting for either major party. I realize that neither of them really wants me. I’m no longer going to vote against one thing rather than for something I can support.

If this is how the Democrats treat allies then yeah, I picked the wrong party. Luckily,
I’m getting better.

Of course, I’m just one person so I can be safely ignored. That is all.

14

I’m sorry that some assholes were unkind to you. I’m hopeful that your choice for who to vote for (or whether or not to vote) will be based on which candidate would be better (or less damaging) for the country, and not based on the actions of some assholes who represent only a minority of support of any particular candidate.

15

This is the cite for my previous post. I’m honestly supposed to consider myself an ally of this guy. Right.

16

What part of that specifically is hurting your feelings so much that you would let Cruz or Trump lead the country? I find zero objectionable points in his post.

17

I do have a team. That team is the Democrats. Yet, like you, my identity is not tied up in the Democratic party, and I want to see the world as it is and use my best judgment. I firmly reject that premise that you are ‘above me’ because you have not chosen a team.

The reason I have the team I do is because all feasible outcomes, both this year and in the foreseeable future, will involve me supporting the Democrats over the Republicans. They are more consistent with my POV in a number of areas: taxes, spending, urban development, foreign adventurism, gay rights, abortion, etc.

It’s not, strictly speaking, impossible that the Republicans will have a contested convention and emerge having nominated a Cory Booker/Julian Castro ticket, at which point I can certainly re-evaluate my team choice. But until there’s some sort of significant political realignment, I see no character flaw in having chosen the team that I have.

This is not a given. If Stein actually manages to shave a considerable percentage of votes off from the left, Democrats may very reasonably cement themselves as a centrist party, as that becomes the unoccupied space. If progressives - which I see you don’t identify as, but most Sanders supporters do - want to influence the Democratic party, their best bet is to be in the party, and do the hard work of organizing, attending countless caucuses, party meetings at the county level, etc. In other words, join a team, and try to make that team more like themselves. Voting every four years isn’t going to cut it.

18

No different than “Clintonistas” which gets tossed around regularly. I’m in favor of not using either but it’s hard for any one side to hand-wring and pretend that they are being uniquely maligned.

That said, you’re certainly better off voting for the candidate you think will be best (be in in primary or general) than basing your decision off of a handful of asshole supporters*. If it turned out that a child molesting axe-murderer was supporting a candidate I liked, it wouldn’t mean that I’m an “ally” of child molesting axe-murderers.

*[Edit: Meant generally and not intended to call NVME702-redux an asshole]

19

An entire country of politicians available, and you’re saying that Hillary Clinton is the very beast the democratic party could do? They couldn’t possibly get a less corrupt, more sincere candidate? That’s simply dreaming, Hillary is the best we could ever expect?

Ah, yes, they just need to “grow up”, because they’re idiot children, and they need “real reasons”, not whatever childish bullshit they think they’re voting for.

Thank you for demonstrating my point in this very thread.

20

Kind of like the great majority of black voters who supported Hillary Clinton, at least according to the SenorBeef of a few months ago, right?