"Some blacks are just dumb and enjoy killing each other" - no warning issued, Tom?

[CarnalK]

@octopus

If that’s the standard then no so called “analogies” are ever relevant. But you know that’s not actually the standard.

Analogies are almost never relevant. So, yeah.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@octopus

It’s close to discrimination based on religion.

I am 100% fine discriminating based on religion, and I think most folk are, too–or do you give Scientologists and Wahhabists and World Church of the Creator members a pass?

Thing is, most religions are pretty anodyne compared to the level of vitriol they receive, and too often religious discrimination is either violent (“convert or die!”) or is tied to ethnic discrimination (“No Jews allowed!”)

But of course we discriminate against people who hold repugnant ideologies, even if those ideologies contain a supernatural element.

[John_Mace]

@CarnalK

Analogies are almost never relevant. So, yeah.

Almost is almost always a weasel word.

[octopus]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

I am 100% fine discriminating based on religion, and I think most folk are, too–or do you give Scientologists and Wahhabists and World Church of the Creator members a pass?

Thing is, most religions are pretty anodyne compared to the level of vitriol they receive, and too often religious discrimination is either violent (“convert or die!”) or is tied to ethnic discrimination (“No Jews allowed!”)

But of course we discriminate against people who hold repugnant ideologies, even if those ideologies contain a supernatural element.

I think religious beliefs deserve the exact same respect political beliefs are given. Or maybe even less since a lot of religious beliefs make very little sense and are anachronistic.

[CarnalK]

@John_Mace

Almost is almost always a weasel word.

Ok, they’re never relevant. Their use is in persuasive rhetoric or explanations but by definition they are not what is being talked about.

[octopus]

@CarnalK

Ok, they’re never relevant. Their use is in persuasive rhetoric or explanations but by definition they are not what is being talked about.

Good luck with any form of math or science or language if you can’t use analogies or reference other objects. How do you avoid endless tautologies if you can only use what is directly being discussed as a reference?

You’d need to use sentences like the sky is blue because the sky is blue or a set of 3 objects has the properties that a set of 3 objects has. I’m not sure how much utility your standard has in the real world.

[CarnalK]

@octopus

Good luck with any form of math or science or language if you can’t use analogies or reference other objects. How do you avoid endless tautologies if you can only use what is directly being discussed as a reference?.

Anologies are how math and science are explained to people who aren’t good at math and science, not how science and math are actually advanced.

[CarnalK]

. An analogy can inspire a line of thought but that can be safely ruled out for internet usage. It’s all “bitcoins are just like tulips” or “politics is just like religion.” Useless to the unconverted.

[Helena330]

@Amara_1

When I first read this, I thought it was a parody. Comparing racism to political ideology especially in today’s environment where the President of the US supports racism, hate crimes (where people are attacked and killed for the color of their skin and perceived religion) are on the rise and white supremacists openly march and celebrate the Presidency is a false equivalency and not a good look for this message board. Frankly, it’s openly insulting to me and I suspect other folks on this board. But then again since most of those offended aren’t white then who cares.

Racism isn’t a logical decision and trying to counter it with rational arguments generally doesn’t work. It’s a hateful viewpoint and “debating” the intelligence and basic humanity of those who aren’t white isn’t a political disagreement or grounds for a debate. It’s openly agreeing that hateful speech is accepted so long as the targets are minorities. Similar viewpoints expressed against white people are, IMHO, more modded partially because more people get upset. This isn’t even-handed. There simply isn’t a comparison between an attack on something a person because of their skin color and because of their political identification.

The entire justification of not providing a warning here (long time poster! low post count! Bending over backwards to provide an alternate explanation!)provides an appearance that racism is coddled and excused. This chases people away as it should.

This is an excellent post.

I feel like it’s the sexism issue all over again where there’s so much willful ignorance and whataboutism. However, the difference is that the mods were open to our suggestions and opinions, for which I’m still grateful. I don’t understand this passive-aggressive weasel-wording basically implying acceptance of racism now. I’m disgusted, quite frankly, and it’s time for me to make another temporary flounce.

[MrDibble]

@Helena330

I feel like it’s the sexism issue all over again where there’s so much willful ignorance and whataboutism. However, the difference is that the mods were open to our suggestions and opinions, for which I’m still grateful.

More mods are women than are people of colour?

[octopus]

@CarnalK

. An analogy can inspire a line of thought but that can be safely ruled out for internet usage. It’s all “bitcoins are just like tulips” or “politics is just like religion.” Useless to the unconverted.

So you are using analogies on the internet to disprove the utility of analogies on the internet?

[CarnalK]

Yeah. Well spotted.

[CarnalK]

@MrDibble

More mods are women than are people of colour?

Not really. I think there’s only one active mod of each.

[bobot]

So can we get a Mod Declaration for the record that racism isn’t a god damn political belief?

[CarnalK]

@bobot

So can we get a Mod Declaration for the record that racism isn’t a god damn political belief?

I think you’re forgetting that how racist you are is pretty dependent on the local culture in which one is raised. Can’t give people grief on how they were raised, can you?

[Bone]

@Amara_1

Racism isn’t a logical decision and trying to counter it with rational arguments generally doesn’t work. It’s a hateful viewpoint and “debating” the intelligence and basic humanity of those who aren’t white isn’t a political disagreement or grounds for a debate. It’s openly agreeing that hateful speech is accepted so long as the targets are minorities. Similar viewpoints expressed against white people are, IMHO, more modded partially because more people get upset. This isn’t even-handed. There simply isn’t a comparison between an attack on something a person because of their skin color and because of their political identification.

People with racist beliefs have changed and renounced those beliefs. That alone is evidence that people can be swayed. I’m sure there are people that can not be swayed, but if we terminate all discussion on distasteful topics we deprive ourselves of the opportunity.

@MrDibble

More mods are women than are people of colour?

We haven’t done a survey, but I don’t think this is true.

@bobot

So can we get a Mod Declaration for the record that racism isn’t a god damn political belief?

It’s not a political belief. That’s also not what Tom said.

---

The post didn’t trigger the “hate speech” rule for me. I read it carefully, multiple times. Whenever I moderate, I make an assessment if I could be wrong - if my reading is incorrect. If there is a way I could be incorrect that is plausible, I tend to back off a bit - a warning could turn into a note, etc. I almost banned for trolling - this was not a unique view among the moderation team. It could have gone either way. To me, that’s the reason for lack of warning. If it’s a warning for trolling, then it’s a banning for a poster with such few posts, typically. I don’t think we were at that point yet, so here we are and time will tell.

[DrDeth]

@Bone

People with racist beliefs have changed and renounced those beliefs. That alone is evidence that people can be swayed. I’m sure there are people that can not be swayed, but if we terminate all discussion on distasteful topics we deprive ourselves of the opportunity.

.

Ok, fine, so we dont ban and delete. But why no warning? It was blatantly racist.

[MrDibble]

@CarnalK

Not really. I think there’s only one active mod of each.

“Have been women” would have been the better way to put it, yes, but I counted at least 2 women (Ellen Cherry and Tuba) on the current active mod staff, and only one PoC that I know of (Asimovian) Of course, the rest *could *be anything. But White Male seems to be the norm.

[John_Mace]

@MrDibble

“Have been women” would have been the better way to put it, yes, but I counted at least 2 women (Ellen Cherry and Tuba) on the current active mod staff, and only one PoC that I know of (Asimovian) Of course, the rest *could *be anything. But White Male seems to be the norm.

Isn’t IvoryTowerDenizen female?

[CarnalK]

@MrDibble

“Have been women” would have been the better way to put it, yes, but I counted at least 2 women (Ellen Cherry and Tuba) on the current active mod staff, and only one PoC that I know of (Asimovian) Of course, the rest *could *be anything. But White Male seems to be the norm.

@John_Mace

Isn’t IvoryTowerDenizen female?

Yes, Ivory is female but Ellen Cherry isn’t what I’d call active and Tuba isn’t really a mod.