[QUOTE=Mr. Miskatonic]
Ergo, I have no way of changing the light, button or not.
[/QUOTE]
I cannot think of a more appropriate tiime to point out that although two wrongs do not make a right, three rights make a left.
Please don’t force me to add a smiley.
Inconsiderate cyclist here. You should be walking on the dirt, not my precious sidewalk. There’s a gutter for a reason! It’s your duty to look out for me; why should I have to yell? I’m expending enough energy just pedaling. Install side mirrors on your shoulder if necessary.
Stop signs are for vehicles with motors–you know, motor vehicles–you should always be watching for me, as your giant car could easily kill me. Is it really so hard to focus on the outside world when you’re jamming out to the new Nelly Furtado song and adjusting your seat warmer? Jesus. People are so inconsiderate.
[QUOTE=Malacandra]
You know, I was thinking something like “I can’t remember who else it is who shows up in these threads with a biiiiiig fucking chip on his shoulder, with his hammer and nails at the ready and all set to go ‘Hey, I can see your house from up here!’,” and now I remember.
[/QUOTE]
If I seem to have a chip my shoulder its because of the sheer bigotry shown here by folks who claim to be somewhat less than ignorant. If you were to make the kinds of sweeping claims made here about someone based on their skin color people would be appalled. But bikes? Oh, no problem, they’re free to attack.
I ride constantly, I encounter shit on a daily basis that I could fill the fucking pit with incidents that happen to me.
I ride legally as best I can, but the roads were not designed for bikes, and they are full of drivers. What is the result? Well guess what: The MORE LEGALLY I RIDE the MORE SHIT I get from motorists!
That’s right, bucko. Maybe you didn’t realize this crap but cars are giving cyclists some seriously mixed messages. Just yesterday I had to jump a red light. I didn’t want to, but I was waiting legally in left-center of the lane. What happened? A car pulled up on my right and all indications were that he was not turning right. He just decided he didn’t want to wait behind a cyclist and was trying to pass on the right to get by me. I’ve had this happen before, and what drivers don’t realize is that my acceleration through the intersection is as fast, if not faster than theirs unless they literally burn rubber. So here I am, with a car on my right about to try passing me and inevitably cutting into my lane wether he’s past me or not, and another car behind me who won’t be happy if I toddle through the intersection to let this guy go. I really don’t feel like hearing horns, the crossroad was clear for a block and a half. So, yes, I ran the light.
Isolated incident you say? No, things similar to that have happened all the time. Here’s other things that have happened:
I’ve had folks honk at me to run a red light (through traffic) so they could right turn on red (illegally, BTW).
I’ve had cars honk at me for stopping at a stop sign. My favorite was the church van.
I’ve had cars honk at me for riding in a lane from almost a block and a half back. Looong honking of horns when we were the only things on the road.
I’ve had car drivers tell me I am legally required to ‘Get out of the way’.
I’ve seen group rides have cars turn right-on-red into the group when they were crossing with the light.
I’ve been honked at for simply being in the road behind some slower moving traffic.
I’ve been honked at in a left turn lane when there was no way to turn (oncoming traffic) even if I was in a car. Good, long lean on that horn, BTW. Oh, and the driver tried to run me down later, too. That was fun.
I’ve been told on this forum that I have no right to be on the road, or at the least I have no right to take a lane when it cannot be shared.
etc. etc. etc. This list does not include things that happen that were not a direct result of me cycling legally. (having things thrown at me, for example). All of these things happen when I was riding perfectly legally according to state laws. I have noted that by ‘going rogue’ and ignoring a few laws I could avoid a lot of the hostility and troubles. I still didn’t blow lights or stop signs, but I found that jumping them (when the x-traffic was clear) would result in a lot fewer of these incidents. But I didn’t do it for long, it just wasn’t for me, and the simple fact is that cyclists are safer riding that way and can ignore the hostility of drivers. I can see why a lot of cyclists do start bending laws, however, and it has little to do with ‘entitlement’.
Its pretty obvious to folks who ride what message is being sent from drivers to cyclists: Ride legally and you will have more hostility troubles. Bend a few rules and you won’t get as many blaring horns.
Its a nasty mixed message, and everyone acts surprised at the results. But its easier to bitch about the cyclists than to look at the circumstances that cause the problem.
[QUOTE=Sauron]
Just out of curiosity … where is this light that never changes?
[/QUOTE]
It doesn’t change unless the sensor is tripped. Simple, yes? Trouble is, cars can trigger the sensor, bikes cannot.
Do you not have sensor tripped lights where you live?
[QUOTE=Mr. Miskatonic]
I’ve had folks honk at me to run a red light (through traffic) so they could right turn on red (illegally, BTW).
I’ve had cars honk at me for stopping at a stop sign. My favorite was the church van.
I’ve had cars honk at me for riding in a lane from almost a block and a half back. Looong honking of horns when we were the only things on the road.
…
I’ve been honked at for simply being in the road behind some slower moving traffic.
I’ve been honked at in a left turn lane when there was no way to turn (oncoming traffic) even if I was in a car. Good, long lean on that horn, BTW. Oh, and the driver tried to run me down later, too. That was fun.
[/QUOTE]
All of these have happened to me while I was driving a car. Idiots honk all the time; why should cyclists be immune?
Wait a second. If there’s that much traffic around you at that intersection, how is it that nobody is tripping the left turn switch? Or is it that uncommon for people to turn left over there?
[QUOTE=Sauron]
I can’t imagine someone who is riding their bike is going to complain about the weather while they’re waiting for a light to change. I mean, you’re on a BIKE. It’s not like the weather is a shock to you – you’ve been in it for a while already. Yes?
[/QUOTE]
Not really. A cyclist generates a lot of body heat while in motion, but much less when stopped. It can get pretty cold if you’re stopped for more than a couple of minutes. Especially if you’re sweaty.
[QUOTE=Mr. Miskatonic]
Do you not have sensor tripped lights where you live?
[/QUOTE]
I don’t know if this would meet your needs, but there is something for motorcycles to set off these sensors.
[QUOTE=Mr. Miskatonic]
It doesn’t change unless the sensor is tripped. Simple, yes? Trouble is, cars can trigger the sensor, bikes cannot.
[/QUOTE]
If there’s not a car there, then you don’t have a problem, right? I mean, no nasty mean ol’ car is breathing down your neck at that point.
If a car IS there, the light will be tripped. And once again, you don’t have a problem.
Look, I know bicyclists have problems with cars/traffic. You and Trunk do yourselves no favors on this board with your constant defense of all things bikes. Occasionally bikes/bikers do things wrong. Same with pedestrians, or cars, or flying spaghetti monsters. When you go on the attack, though, in a thread SPECIFICALLY POINTING OUT that it’s not about ALL bikers, it makes people want to ignore the valid points you make.
[QUOTE=Trunk]
Show some fucking originality then.
[/QUOTE]
Man, whatever. This is the first time I’ve ever complained publicly about the actions of a cyclist, IRL or via The Tubes. I wasn’t aware that this is a recurring problem here. You can go ahead and abloo bloo bloo about how I’m Oppressing Your People if you want, but I don’t think I’m being particularly unreasonable here.
[QUOTE=ForumBot]
I don’t know if this would meet your needs, but there is something for motorcycles to set off these sensors.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, and I have found that works a lot of the time. If that doesn’t, then leaning the bike waaaaaay over can do it.
But not all sensors are created equal, or are installed equally. If they are set to being too sensitive the cars in the lane next to them can trigger them.
I haven’t always come down on this side of the issue, but I have no beef with cyclists that ride legally and safely. But, IMO, there are cyclists that ride legally, but not safely, and they put themselves and others in danger because of it. Taking a lane on a main thoroughfare, and keeping traffic snarled behind you at 15mph, then waxing self-righteous when people honk and bitch at you is simply not sensible, nor is it safe, regardless of your legality.
Nor (as I have mentioned before) is screwing down Ochs Highway in Chattanooga in heavy traffic at 50mph, laying the bike over on tight turns, with massively heavy traffic in front of you, behind you, and coming at you in the other lane of the narrow road. One little millisecond mistake, and you will be road paste. No ifs, ands, or buts. You do not have the right to shave years off of drivers’ lives by time-trialing in traffic. That’s just stupid. If you want to work on your hardcore downhilling skillz, find yourself a little-used road somewhere else. There are plenty of them around there.
Ochs Highway, incidentally, comes off the nose of Lookout Mountain, very steeply, and is heavily used by folks coming and going between Chattanooga, St. Elmo, and the raft of high-end communities on top of the mountain (not to mention the national park, and Covenant College.) The traffic can really snarl on that road, and a sudden stop when your vehicle is pointing downward at 15 degrees is quite enough to worry about.
[QUOTE=Sauron]
If there’s not a car there, then you don’t have a problem, right? I mean, no nasty mean ol’ car is breathing down your neck at that point.
If a car IS there, the light will be tripped. And once again, you don’t have a problem.
[/QUOTE]
So just how many light cycles do I have to wait for a car who wants to turn to come along? How many before you consider it to be OK for me to take matters into my own hands?
The problem is not that I defend cyclists bad behavior: believe me I can’t STAND wrong-way riders, among other things. The problem is that inevitably the thread becomes a hatefest of all things cycling! Look at post #2 on this thread!
Now, it shouldn’t matter if cyclists are riding abreast or if it is one cyclist riding legally in the center of the lane. What Ivylass describes is an incredibly dangerous maneuver that she causes! But somehow, its the cyclists fault! 
Or how about post #23?
Ot post #49
Post #53 makes no bones: There is no caveat about legally riding cyclists. Its a full-on hatefest.
So the OP specifically points out that it was some cyclists. Tell it to the rest of the board. They weren’t listening.
[QUOTE=Sauron]
You’re speaking of this light that you have to spend all this time “shivering” at while you’re waiting for it to change, right?
I can’t imagine someone who is riding their bike is going to complain about the weather while they’re waiting for a light to change. I mean, you’re on a BIKE. It’s not like the weather is a shock to you – you’ve been in it for a while already. Yes?
[/QUOTE]
Yes, stopping is a problem as far as heat is concerned. Its not just a bike issue. Go jog in cold weather until you build up a good sweat. Then stop dead. Feel what happens.
[QUOTE=Ogre]
Taking a lane on a main thoroughfare, and keeping traffic snarled behind you at 15mph, then waxing self-righteous when people honk and bitch at you is simply not sensible, nor is it safe, regardless of your legality.
[/quote]
It’s safer than the only other alternative, which is to ride close to the curb and have cars squeeze past in the same lane with inches to spare.
[QUOTE=scr4]
It’s safer than the only other alternative, which is to ride close to the curb and have cars squeeze past in the same lane with inches to spare.
[/QUOTE]
But not as safe as the other alternative: find a safer way to get where you’re going.
[QUOTE=Fear Itself]
All of these have happened to me while I was driving a car. Idiots honk all the time; why should cyclists be immune?
[/QUOTE]
So someone tried to run you down while you were in your car? interesting. How does that work?
I don’t think you get it.
[QUOTE=justrob]
cowgirl, could you please explain #2 for us? You explain the clearly legal and not legal options pretty well but don’t explain the completely legal but unexpection option at all.
Thanks
[/QUOTE]
I will try.
The lights are on the west edge of a big roundabout (we don’t have many of those in this country so nobody knows what the laws are, and there are lots and lots of stoplights and a few strange ramps to help us along). In the middle of the roundabout is a big park with many paths, some of which are marked as bike paths but all of which are always filled with pedestrians. Once when I was on one of those paths I got hit with a ball that two kids were playing with. Dogs run around, joggers and tourists are everywhere, and in my opinion cyclists simply don’t belong there (see above re: pedestrians not always being good at getting out of the way). My option 2 is the only alternative to going through the park.
There is one lane of traffic until just before the roundabout, where it splits into two. The pedestrian crossing is on an island to the left of the eastbound traffic.
I approach, heading east, in the bike lane, which ends abruptly once the roundabout starts. The lane splits into two; the right hand lane goes south, and the left hand lane goes around the roundabout to go in any other direction.
Choice A is to go south or to do something tricky to get yourself on the traffic island to use the signal to cross through the park.
Choice C is to go to the left of the eastbound traffic to get on the traffic island that way.
Choice B is to go on the right hand side of the left lane (i.e. the lane that is going anywhere but south), which puts me between two lanes of traffic, to the left of the cars that are turning right. (This is the place everyone thinks I’m not supposed to be.) Once the light changes, I progress through the intersection to the right hand side of the far left of three lanes, which is the only lane that isn’t going south. Drivers don’t like to see cyclists going across three empty lanes, they don’t feel comfortable passing me on either side (although there is plenty of room to do so), and they are quite surprised to see me passing them on the left (as I generally get better acceleration than they do, I can pass them through the intersection).
I am quite certain that this is perfectly legal, because once I have done this maneuver and am preparing to continue east, the one lane splits into two, and beside the right hand lane there is a big sign (which isn’t visible until you’re right in front of it) with a picture of a bike on it, indicating that bikes are supposed to be in the lane that I am in, which is only accessible through the route I describe above.
Clear enough?
[QUOTE=Ogre]
But not as safe as the other alternative: find a safer way to get where you’re going.
[/QUOTE]
In other words: Get off the road cyclist.
[QUOTE=Ogre]
But not as safe as the other alternative: find a safer way to get where you’re going.
[/QUOTE]
That is the safest way. The only choices I have are:
Take the right lane on a “main” road (at least 2 lanes inch direction), forcing cars to use the other lanes in order to pass me.
Use a narrower back road (1 lane each way), forcing cars to wait for a break in oncoming traffic to pass me. Either that or they have to wait until I find a safe place I can pull over, which can take a while on a mountain or rural road.