Some people have a problem with being proven wrong.

You know how sometimes you have an argument with someone, and you know that they’re wrong and you’re right, and you can actually prove to them that they’re wrong and you’re right, and they still keep up the argument, and you keep trying to tell them that no, the point they’re trying to make is just wrong, and they just won’t give up?
My friend’s sister, H, was an exchange student in Ohio a few weeks back. Last week, the daughter of the American host family, S, came to visit Finland. When it was time for her to return to the States, there was a problem with schedules and what-not, so finally I suggested I could drive her to the airport.

I drove up to my friend’s house, where H and S were waiting to load the luggage into the trunk of the car. S sat down in the passenger seat and noticed that I drive a stick-shift. So she turned and asked me, “Isn’t this much harder to drive than an automatic?”

“No,” I answered, “it might be a little harder to learn when to change gears and everything, but eventually it’s just as easy.”

“No,” she said, “I mean because it doesn’t have Reverse.”

There was a slight pause as I pondered this statement. “What do you mean?” I asked, puzzled.

“Stick shift cars don’t have Reverse,” S answered, completely straight-faced.

I glanced down at the stick, which has the diagram of where each gear is located. There, on the right side, on the bottom, is a big R. R for Reverse. I pointed this out to her.

“Oh, yeah, I mean, they put that there, but it’s only for show. It’s not really a functional gear,” S insisted.

By this time, my eyes must have been the size of dinner plates. H was standing by the open window, listening to this conversation and trying desperately not to burst out laughing.

“So,” I ventured, after I had regained my composure, “how exactly do people who drive stick-shifts park, then? Or back out of driveways?”

“Well, I don’t know, do I?” S was quite frustrated by this point. “Isn’t that why all your driveways are on inclines? So the car can roll out due to gravity?”

At this point, H decided she would go inside because she was laughing so hard and spectacularly trying and failing not to show it.

I shook my head, started the car and backed it out of the completely-level driveway. S still refused to believe that Reverse was a functional gear. She insisted that the driveway was on an incline. I finally took us to a nearby empty parking lot and drove around backwards in a circle for about five minutes. (A passing dog-walker gave us some very strange looks.)

She still refused to aknowledge the functionality of the Reverse gear.

I gave up and just started laughing. She wouldn’t speak to me for the entire half-hour drive to the airport.

So, let’s hear your stories. Surely everyone has had at least one passing encounter with someone whose stubborn nature will cause them to refute even the most blatantly obvious facts?

Another misconception of mine destroyed! I thought exchange students had to be on the bright side.

I hope that S can sing. Or she looks like B. Spears. Or something. Otherwise, her future doesn’t seem too bright.

To be honest I used to have this problem, still due to some extant. I have been working to get over it, but it’s still kind’a hard to say “oh, I guess you were right”. I have been working at for while now and it is not as hard as it used to be to admit I was wrong. I force me self to when I think I’m wrong, I don’t like to but I usaully do.

okay not using preview on that redundent post was something I was wrong about:smack:

Probably the one that springs best to mind was the Grape Juice Argument.

Used to work with this guy who was Born Again Christian, the kind who feels the need to share the joy with everyone, whether they want it or not. He didn’t really MEAN to be attacking everyone else’s religion… including other Christians, like Catholics, Lutherans, and so on… it was just that HIS brand was the only way to really get you into Heaven, you know, and he’d hate to see us all miss out on such a grand thing through some silly little misconceptions, you know?

I will call him “Bob” for convenience.

Bob was not popular. He couldn’t talk about much of anything BUT religion, and just would not let it drop. He took a lot of flak for that, but that was okay; he viewed it as the price he paid for doing the Lord’s work…

…and what was worse, his particular brand of Jesus espoused some rather odd beliefs, including the sinfulness of dancing, and the utter blasphemy of alcoholic beverages.

This drove the college folks nuts. Simply drinking a beer is a sin? Yup, said Bob, a sin in the eyes of God, regardless of what you do when you have consumed it.

Finally, one night on the job, this discussion erupted into full scale argument. Wasn’t there a quote in the Bible about “wine that maketh glad the heart of man?” Hadn’t Jesus turned water into wine at a wedding? Howthehell did he justify the idea that God would send you to hell for drinking beer if Jesus could get a crowd soused at a wedding?

Bob smiled magnanimously, and explained that it was all a matter of translational problems incurred while wresting the Bible from the Jews, and later, the Catholics. That Bible didn’t MEAN “wine” at all. When the Bible said “wine,” what it meant was “grape juice.”

At this point, I’d had enough. I’d tried quoting scripture at him, and he was sitting here telling me about grape juice.

“Bob, where do grapes grow?”

“Huh?”

“Where do grapes grow, Bob? Do you know? I’ll tell you. They don’t grow in most of the Holy Land. The weather isn’t right, nor has it been in several thousand years. Ask any California grape grower, and he’ll tell you that vineyards are finicky things. Grapes don’t grow in the desert, Bob.”

“So?”

“So where were Jesus and the apostles getting their grape juice?”

“Huh? Well, they bought it, I suppose.”

“From where? Grapes don’t grow in the desert, Bob. We know that Jesus ate figs from a fig tree, so we’re talking semi-arid conditions, here. So where was Jesus getting his grape juice? Or was he whipping it up out of water every night?”

Bob opened his mouth… and closed it again. I continued ranting.

“The only way they could be getting fruit juice was by CARAVAN. We know there was loads of trade throughout the region at the time; the Romans encouraged it. Good for taxes. Now… tell me, Bob… what happens when you fill a jug with grape juice and take it on a trip on camelback through a hot desert for several months?”

A look of dawning horror came over Bob’s face. Several people snickered. I should have quit, then, but Bob had irritated me to the point where I felt like nailing him down pretty hard.

“That’s right, Bob. Fermentation. Wine. Merchants WANTED it to become wine, too. Wine has alcohol in it. Alcohol kills germs. Most travelers back then would order wine or beer before they’d trust the local water. Plus, water can go stagnant in transit unless you’re very careful. Wine doesn’t. True, some wines travel better than others, but Jesus and the gang never did have much money; I think we can presume they were drinking the cheap stuff. And Jesus did a lot of traveling. Of course, he was Jesus, so maybe he didn’t have to worry about Montezuma’s Revenge…”

Bob had faith, sure… but he wasn’t a quick thinker. He huffed and chuffed and growled about how, um, well, Jesus could do whatever he wanted to, 'cuz he was the Son Of God, and…

“You mean he was doing miracles every night for supper, Bob?” said someone.

“Yeah, man, he turned water into wine, and rocks into bread… oh, wait a minute, he refused to do that when the devil tempted him, didn’t he?” said someone else.

“Well, maybe he was just reverse-fermenting the stuff,” laughed a third person. “Turning wine back into grape juice. Does that qualify as a miracle?”

To make a long story short, Bob was rather upset by this conversation. He mentioned later that it constituted an attack on his faith, and that he felt it was most unkind.

He got no sympathy. Several other people, notably the one Catholic, remarked about how he’d been launching frontal assaults on everyone else’s faith for weeks.

Bob fumfuh’d and hemhawed, and then said (something to the effect of), “Well, yes, but your faiths are false faiths, whereas mine’s the true one, so it’s okay for me to do that.”

After that, Bob was even less popular. He did, however, cut WAY back on his evangelical attempts. He did NOT like me, and spoke to me as little as possible; I think he may have gotten the idea that Satan had sent me personally to shake his faith with all my historical and scientific heresies about wine and grape juice in ancient Galilee.

…but after that, he viewed us less as sheep to be led to the proper fold… and more as Enemies Of The True Faith. We didn’t find out until quite some time afterwards that he still believed that Jesus drank only grape juice… because… well… his pastor TOLD him so… and… well… FAITH is the important thing, now, isn’t it?

I used to do that a lot, but now I just say “Oh” and let it slide. It’s no big deal for me, really.

“Bob” would really piss me off.

I have two brothers, a sister, and parents that have a big problem with being proven wrong. They really fly into rages when someone proves them wrong. One brother will argue until his face is blue even when he knows he is wrong. They are all alright otherwise. Please help me Dr. Phil.

Dr. Phil. Now there’s a guy that can never be wrong as far as Dr. Phil is concerned. He must be God because in an hour he can solve problems that people have struggled with for years and psychiatrists have tried to help for years.

Sorry for the hijack. I don’t like Dr. Phil.

I HATE being wrong. Hate it, hate it, hate it. Hate it even more when someone else notices. And it took me almost 40 years to learn to be wrong gracefully - at least visibly gracefully. Now I say, “Oh. Thanks for setting me straight,” but on the inside I am still arguing days later, and will pigheadedly continue to look for proof that I am indeed right in the face of all evidence to the contrary.

Nuh uh!

Righty then… I must learn to proofread better. Of course I meant that H was in Ohio a few years back, not weeks. Ah well. :slight_smile:

Squinancy Barry: I know, I should probably have let the whole thing slide, but I just couldn’t believe what I was hearing. Fighting ignorance and all that. I mean, surely this girl must have seen at least one stick-shift car drive in reverse.

Then again, from what I saw during my Texas years, most of the cars people drove were automatic, so maybe that wouldn’t have been as clear to her as to me. (I dunno. What is the ratio of automatic to stick-shift cars in the United States? Does it vary from state to state?)

Wank-Ka, that Bob story is classic. . .I’m not sure I could endure much of Bob without blowing a gasket (actually, I’d probably only go nuts if I was drinking).

You see, I’m NEVER wrong when drinking. I’ll argue something completely absurd just for the point of arguing it.

Once I went to a law school party after graduates had just completed the Bar exam…I asked several students to revisit some of the questions they had earlier in the day, which was a great way to socialize. I then went to other students, and asked them how they answered those particular questions I had learned ealier (pretending to have taken the exam myself). No matter how they answered, I would proceed to “prove them wrong” with nothing but ridiculous attempts at using some sort of round-about-circilar logic that really made no sense, but made the students question their answers anyway.

That was a fun night.

**

That would have driven me crazy. It’s not just that she was mistaken, but that she was prepared to argue the point with you, while you were driving your own car! Was she seriously so stupid to think that you wouldn’t have noticed? (OK, she obviously was, if she thought anyone would actually make cars that couldn’t reverse).

Maybe you should driven in reverse up an incline.

This is the part where I would have been unable to contain my gales of laughter. The “R” is only for show? Like the painted on speedometer, and those fake plastic seatbelts, eh? Oh my, what a piece of work she must be.

I don’t try very hard to argue with people who can’t be wrong. I just let them believe whatever they want to believe. I feel kinda sorry for them, because I’ve learned so much from other people, and I guess they’re not learning much at all.

I think that the daughter of the host family was just confused by the fact that stick-shift cars in the U.S. don’t have reverse. She probably thought that it would be the same way over there. I know I was when someone in Europe showed it to me.

Huh?

I second the ‘Huh?’

Don’t you need a reverse if you want to park (or get out) almost anywhere? So what are those non-reverse stick-shift car used for? Display purposes only?

My sister cannot tolerate being wrong. What drives me crazy is when she considers herself an authority on my lifetime friends despite the fact that she left the scene and moved 600 miles away when I was only twelve. Typical conversation:

And when my sister is proven wrong – (by someone else), she never apologizes. Instead she makes excuses.

I’ve tried getting her to just agree to disagree. She doesn’t go for it.

My daughter-in-law corrects me all the time. She is frequently right. But she also corrects me (loudly and rudely) when she is wrong. One time she screamed You’re wrong! so loudly in a car that we all just laughed at her. I don’t mind going to the trouble to prove to her that she is wrong. One time I had to call Robert Redford’s office to back up what I was saying. Then she denied ever saying it. (But Papa Bear had heard her too.)

Again, she is not an idiot. She is much smarter than I. Just not smart enough to handle being wrong gracefully.

I think Shagnasty just meant he wasn’t convinced until he saw someone reverse in metric. :wink:

the R’s for reverse a secret emblem the illminati have over manual transmission industry!
HAHAGHAHAHAH all your gears are belonging to us!

Makes me wonder how my sister managed to get the only stick-shift car with reverse in the US…every time she got a car…

So how did S try to explain how you managed to drive backwards in that parking lot?