Some 'professionals' aren't really all that professional

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

A couple weeks ago, I was walking with our dogs up the street to the local dog park (phenominal resource - hundreds of acres of woods, trails, fields and a pond that is a 5 min walk from the house). Since the road is a dead end road, and I walk up and down it 3-5 times per week, I’ve gotten to be at least familiar with most of the people who live along the street.

As I’ve gotten more and more comfortable with our dogs behavior, and especially their recall, and with the people on the road in general, I’ve started to let the dogs go off-leash during that 5 minute walk. Technically, its against town laws to have a dog off leash, but I have a remote collar on each dog in the event that they get so narrow minded on something (SQUIRREL!) that I need to distract them back to reality to keep from tearing ass after something. Not necessary 99.5% of the time, but its always a nice fall-back if needed. I dont know how many times I’ve gone up and down the street with other dogs out, cats roaming around, kids playing in the street, etc with no issues.

Anyhow, back to the main story. I was walking up the street, and I noticed one of our neighbors with a couple other people I didn’t recognize, and a couple dogs (one of which I did recognize - my neighbors golden-doodle). I leashed up one dog - the one that is more prone to having his actions mis-interpreted by others (he acts like a grumpy old man - rarely becomes an issue, but if he meets another high energy gumpy dog, it can escalate) - and let the other dog be on her own as she’s much better at that initial dog-dog meeting. As we got closer, the loose dog went up to one of the other dogs. What happened next was somewhat of a blur, but this is how I recall it:

  1. My dog, the one who approached the other dog, lifted her front paws up and put them on the other dogs shoulders. Kind of like what a dog does to a person when someone walks through the door. This was very odd - never seen her do that before. Normally she just sniffs butts.
  2. The other dog started growling (I learned later that the other dog is grumpy, like my other dog is), and then both dogs started growling.
  3. One of the women literally just started screaming at the top of her lungs. At nothing. Seriously, at nothing at all. Not at me, not at the dogs, not at anything but open space.

Once I got my dog out of the melee, apologized, and walked off, I reviewed the entire sequence of events. Yes, I should have followed my gut and put both dogs on the leash. I was wrong in that - I admit it. However, the woman screaming at nothing at all did nothing to help, because that just meant I had to raise my voice and scream in order to get my dogs attention. And I dont really know of any situation in which screaming makes a situation better.

So last night, I saw the neighbor and we talked about the incident. I was concerned that maybe I was misremembering the events, but she did indeed confirm that this woman had screamed at nothing at all! As far as I’m concerned - scream at the dogs to separate them (try and solve the immediate problem), or scream at me for not having both dogs on a leash (try and solve the original problem). At least in either case, she would have been trying to be productive.

Throughout the conversation with the neighbor last night, it turns out that this woman was a supposed dog obedience trainer, who trained @ Petsmart, whose services were won in an auction where the proceeds are given to charity, who they (the neighbor) had already determined was crazy before I saw them on the street, and who claimed that she doesn’t make any money on her obedience training. No wonder why - she’s terrible.

And its not like this screaming was some sort of technique at all (if it was, she really should have explained it to my neighbor after the incident). I just dont get it. Do people really read one dog training book, or watch half a dozen episodes of a dog training program, and really sell themselves as an expert?

2

Man, you’re about to get your ass ripped here. You might have well have complained about how the lady was fat and your dog was declawed.

3

Recognizing your error of not leashing your dog, which is what caused the lady to scream in the first place, is an important first step. Hopefully you will also learn to quit looking for blame in others as well, regardless of what kind of boob she is.

4

I didn’t read past this, because the rest is irrelevant. Good on you for recognizing the correct problem and owning up to it.

5

IANADog Trainer but even I know that screaming isn’t the most effective way to handle dogs. That was just stupid. I feel sorry for that woman’s clients.

6

Sounds to me like she was going to mount the other dog. First you get your front paws up on their back, then walk your back legs around to the rear-end and…yeah.

Possibly she figured that by you allowing her to roam free, while locking the other dog in, that you were telling her that the other (foreign) dog was hers to own. Though, who knows really.

7

Yes, sometimes they do.

I have a client who is convinced she has diagnosed her dog’s neurologic problems because she is an avid watcher of House.

Peoples is crazy.

All the more reason to put your dogs on leash when you see random folks about. Who knows if they’ll be crazy or not. :wink:

8

In an attempted to answer the ACTUAL question asked by the OP, no, I’ve never heard of that training technique, and yes, lots of people do claim to be professionals when they aren’t. Personal Trainers, for instance, or child care providers. People can get licensed for most stuff, but unless the general public actively looks for people with those certifications (if they even know about it), these types of people are sometimes able to get business.

I would expect they would soon go out of business due to bad press. Hopefully.

9

One unaddressed element that may bear on the story is that not only do your dogs have to be leashed, other people need to be able to see that your dogs are leashed in time to make decisions.

Also, as others have implied, it’s not okay to let any dog go up to a strange dog without clearing it with the humans first. Even if your dog is perfectly behaved. What if the strange dog is dog-reactive?

It’s not clear from my reading of the post what sort of dog the non-doodle dog was. If he or she was a dog-reactive dog, however, I can see where the woman might have simply panicked – it’s so unexpected and potentially so terrible when an off-leash dog runs right up to a reactive dog and a fight starts.

Sorry to pile on. This is a sore point for me – we are plagued here with people who not only take their dogs off-leash, but are practically “off-leash activists” – they continue to do so over and over, despite the local law being clear, despite being warned by the police, despite our requests, despite incidents in which their dog runs out into traffic, etc. They stand on the sidewalk holding their limp leash and scream ineffectually while their dog does whatever he or she wants…and then the next week, they’re doing it again.

And my wife’s parents (or now that her mom has passed, just her father) keep letting their dogs, and other peoples’ dogs they are supposedly caring for, run out the front door, unleashed and unwatched, in a high-traffic area. They’ve had four killed since I’ve known them, one of whom was a dog they were watching for someone else.

What’s the expected learning curve on this issue?
.

10

Dog training is not a profession.

11

I dunno, maybe she has a way to prep herself before giving lessons. Like, she knows it’s coming and she’s pre-screened her clients so it isn’t a surprise. Reminds me of the classic Master Wang-Ka thread where the teacher freaked out on seeing a spider but as soon as the class of kids came in she was all hardcore teacher.

12

I assume you mean that there is no test or qualifications to become a dog trainer. Perhaps that’s true, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a class or qualification that the people who train police dogs get before they can train the dogs. If so, I think that would be sufficient to say that you are a professionally trained dog trainer.

13

Nope. I mean that dog training is not a profession.

14

Sometimes, yeah. That’s why when you deal with someone who doesn’t have licensing, or works in a field where licensing isn’t available, you have to ask questions and look for references and such. This is a huge issue with getting people to do home repairs around here–there are a handful of people who are licensed plumbers and electricians, and a small multitude who do a little work on the side and aren’t licensed. Some of the multitude are really great, some of them are the sort of nimrods who will use water line connections when running gas line to a fireplace. (True story–our plumber was replacing leaky lines to our gas log, and I distinctly heard the man say “It’s a wonder they ain’t blowed up.” Three guesses why the damn lines were leaking. And no, we didn’t hire the nimrods, the previous owners did.)

Of course, certification/licensing isn’t a guarantee that someone is any good, either. All it really shows is that they have some degree of theoretical knowledge, which may or may not translate into practical ability. Especially with things you can get certified or an associate’s degree via correspondence. You should still ask questions and get references if at all possible.

All that aside, this sort of situation is precisely why it is “technically against town laws” to have dogs off-leash outside the dog park. This could have gotten very, very bad if the strange dog had chosen to do more than growl, worse than your average dog fight. With her paws on his shoulders, her exposed belly was pretty much right there by his face, ripe for the slashing. If she’d managed to hurt him, you’d be liable for the vet bills. If someone had gotten hurt trying to split them up, you’d be liable for medical bills and open to a civil lawsuit for pain and suffering and all that. And since your girl would have technically started it, she’d be the one at risk for being considered a “dangerous dog” by the city/county. These laws are in place to protect you and her from other animals as much as they are to protect people and other animals from her.

15

Did anyone else read this and picture a Donald Sutherland-like pod-person screech? From the way you’re describing it, I think I would have freaked, thrown whatever I had in my hands at her (hopefully I wouldn’t have been carrying a little dog at the time, but there’s no accounting for panic), and ran ran ran.

16

After long arguments with Jerry Pournelle and Daffyd ab Hugh about what constitutes a “professional” science fiction writer, I stay out of any discussions defining any sort of “professionalism.” :slight_smile:

17

[CounterRip]

Wilbo523, thank you for condensing my entire supposed outlook on life based on a projection of one incident in which I fully admitted some of my wrong doing. I’ll make you a deal, I’ll stop ‘blaming others’ if you actually read posts, and recognize I wasn’t blaming her, and in fact owned up to my own mistake.

KneadToKnow Thats a great way to do things. Just read to a point that satisfies you, ignoring the rest of the story, and then comment about irrelevancy. The irony is staggering. Thats the kind of attitude I like to see in someone I’m having an argument with - it gives me an effective tool to control the conversation with :).

[/CounterRip]

Sage Rate - I hadn’t thought of that possibility. I’ve known that behavior to be much more prevelant in male dogs (especially intact ones), and my dog I had off leash is a female. However, I suppose it could still be possible.

Sailboat - the dog that my dog approached, I’ve found out, tends to be a bit grumpy. I didn’t know this at the time. You are absolutely right - all the more reason to keep the dogs on a leash around a strange dog.

Regarding the situation with your wife’s parents - one of the people in the neighborhood lost a dog right around the time time we adopted ours to the same issue. The door was open, dog ran out, and got hit by a car. Right away, we train our dogs never to cross the plane of an open doorway unless we give them the OK. I’d have never thought of that if I didn’t know someone who lost a dog that way.

Finally, I really appreciate the candor of your comments/criticism. You were effectively able to point out how my faults in the situation could have been perceived by others without making the criticisms personal, where you imply I’m a bad person or a terrible dog owner.

Regarding Off-Leash:
I know that off leash is a sore point with a lot of people, but perhaps a factoid that I didn’t really mention plays a larger part in the situation. The neighborhood I live in is very, very populated with dogs. It seems just about every house has at least one dog, if not two. I bring the dogs up to the park and see many of the same people all the time, so in general, all the dogs kinda know each other (oh look! There’s Buddy. There’s Casey. There’s Nina. There’s Tess. There’s Jake.)

The other major fact is that the park up the street is an official, by law, off leash dog park. Thats right - there is no law regarding leashes within the park - so off-leash is the norm. Granted, where this incident took place was on the street. The park being off-leash does not provide me with a good excuse for having my dog off leash on the street. However, it is worth mentioning only because in general, the population around the neighborhood is very used to dogs being off leash.

Side note: I’ve definately found that dogs react better with other dogs, in general, when they are off leash. Not every time - after spending a long time with a dog you get to learn subtle signs of when it’ll be better to leash them, and when they’ll be fine when not. In this incident, the dog I leashed was a golden retriever. The dog I let be alone is a collie mix. There have been numerous times I’ve leashed the golden when another person and dog is approaching, only to have the golden react a little more vocally than other times when he’s allow to check out the other dog without restraint. Its a touchy balance - most of the time I anticipate his reaction correctly. It mostly has to do with whether we encounter another dog in the beginning of the walk, when he’s wound up, or at the end, when he’s more tired.

To everyone who responded in a fashion I’d decribe as level-headed (recognized I owned up to my mistake, and were able to comment on my real question of the OP), thank you. After I posted, I feared the worst, as Smeghead pointed out. It wasn’t as bad as I thought :slight_smile:

18

Then you are saying absolute nothing. The fact that there are actual trainers who get paid to train dogs indicates that it is a profession. The sole requirement to be a professional anything is to be paid for doing it.

19

I think Muffin is being a bit pedantic here, referring to a narrow, formal definition of the word profession at described here.

20

Nope. Check up on what constitutes a profession, and get back to us on that.

Just because my dad showed me how to make lemonade when I was a tot, and I then went out and spent an afternoon selling lemonade at the curb for 5 cents a glass, did not make me a professional.