I have a few questions about welding equipment, in case I decide I like working in steel [sculpturally] and eventually want to own my own stuff. (Since this is my last semester of school, I won’t have access to their tools after May.)
what is a “MIG conversion kit”? That is… if you don’t use it, what kind of welder do you have, and why do you need the kit? I’ve seen some inexpensive welders [such as this one] that say they are not “MIG ready” and need this kit. Don’t understand.
Do I *need *a cart or could I just put the thing on the ground in the driveway/garage and go at it? Mind you I realize the cart would be monumentally more convenient, I’m just curious if there is another reason for it than convenience, like needing to not be grounded or something.
Is the gas tank going to be dangerous to have in my garage? I figure it’s not likely to explode, but is it going to leak out and kill us all in our sleep?
Plasma cutters. Do I need anything other than an air compressor to go with it (for the ones that say they use “shop air” obviously)? I ask because at the school we have a huge contraption that is connected to a bunch of stuff and I don’t really know what all of it is or how much of it is needed.
Gloves. What would you recommend that isn’t leather? (And don’t say “leather”–I’m a vegetarian and don’t (won’t) buy leather. I realize that it is the best option and that probably there isn’t a substitute that is equivalent, but I’m looking for the best compromise that doesn’t involve leather.) Edited to add: I’m assuming some type of cotton glove is going to be the answer; I’m looking for more specifics, like an example “these gloves [link to place that sells them] would work” type of thing.
Anybody got any general tips/advice/words of wisdom vis-a-vis welding at home? (Other than “buy several cheap long-sleeve cotton shirts you don’t mind burning tiny holes in”? 'Cause I already figured that one out all by myself :smack:)
Thanks!
(And yes, I realize that my professor can answer several of these questions, but the problem is I’m thinking about them *now *and I won’t see her again until next Tuesday, by which time I will probably have forgotten what I wanted to ask!)
MIG stands for metal inert gas. MIG welders have a copper wire that is surrounded by a noble gas. The welder I’ve used had argon, I do believe. It just keeps contaminants out of the way to make your welds nicer.
The plasma cutter that I’ve used plugged into a funky outlet with one cord and the shop’s pressurized air pipe thingamajig. I don’t see why you couldn’t just use a compressor. But that leads directly into my next statement.
This seems like a bad idea if you’re not very familiar with the equipment, their uses, and how they work. It’s one thing to play with in a shop with a teacher and another to sit in your driveway and mess around.
The conversion provides a source of inert gas to shield the metal wire being fed into the joint. The welder you linked to uses a flux core wire where the core flux, as it boils off, provides shielding from the atmosphere.
It’s just convenience. Grounding is done by a purposeful grounding clamp and cable.
No, not gigantically dangerous but still be cautious. It’s not the gas inside that would kill you most likely, but being around when you knock the cylinder over and crack the valve off. That’s a good reason for a cart right there as they usually provide some means of leashing the gas cylinder upright and secure.
3) Hi, Opal. (You knew that was coming…)
I’ve used plasma cutters but never configured one.
I use cloth gardening gloves for TIG and MIG welding. Those don’t usually throw slag around if you’ve got the right amperage for the material. I’m guarding my hands mostly from UV and heat when welding so these suffice. I go through them moderately quickly, but they give you a much better feel on the torch or the feed handle in the case of MIG.
Buy a helmet with a photo-reactive visor. They don’t cost all that much and the ability to get the arc and fill rod positioned exactly where you want it before starting can help with tidy, professional welds.
And above all, have fun. Nothing like using molten metal glue to make things…
Well, I’m not just going to “play with it in a shop with a teacher” I am going to spend a semester working extensively with metal (probably. Unless I end up hating it, which so far doesn’t seem likely). I already spent about 2 solid hours welding today alone, and I’ve used the plasma cutter several times in the past. We were taught all the various settings and what the controls were for and so on, and she explained how they work, and showed us what it looks like when you have stuff set wrong or do the wrong thing (in the case of the plasma cutter, it was exciting! heh). Don’t worry–by the time I’d be ready to get my own stuff, I’ll have had a decent amount of experience working with the equipment–enough to know if I want to keep doing it, for one thing.
My first question was primarily because I thought that the thing was a MIG welder already by definition, though she did show us that you technically can weld without the gas on, but it sucks. So when I started looking at welders online (out of curiosity about how much they cost) I was confused that some of them needed a converter to “become” MIG welders. Are the ones without the converter just for doing sloppy, ugly welds on stuff where it doesn’t matter what it looks like?
MonkeyMensch: yeah I was surprised that I was finding those helmets online for about $50 and considering getting one of my own just because some of the ones at the school are kind of…grody. I do like the fact that they automatically darken. I can only imagine how much of a nuisance it would have been trying to do the stuff I was doing today if I had to keep flipping the thing up all the time! It’s also cool that they’re solar powered, and so just by welding in front of them, they recharge! How cool is that?
My main concern with the gardening gloves is that they would be too thin, or that they might be too loose…? Have you had any problems with that?
My welding instructor made a beautiful weld with an FCAW welder. FCAW, in case you don’t know, stands for Flux Core Arc Welding. Admittedly, it wasn’t a cheap 110V Home Depot job, but I am sure he could have made a beautiful weld with one of those as well. The limits of those are duty cycle and material thickness. What kind of welder you want obviously depends on what you want to do with it.
BTW, you might consider learning to do SMAW, aka stick welding. I mention this because you can get a nice AC/DC stick welder for about the same price as a low-end wire feed welder (that is, flux-core or MIG). Although because of the spatter, you should probably consider going with leather.
I already said I’m not considering going with leather. If that were the alternative, I’d just give up welding. My conviction about leather is far, far stronger than my desire to weld/have safety gear for welding.
I’m sure that a really skilled person who was taking their time could do a good weld with whatever welder they had–just like some people can make an amazing picture with an etch-a-sketch. I’m just wondering if the bulk of usage of those cheap welders is for people who aren’t concerned with how easy it is to make a nice looking weld and just want something inexpensive that will stick things together where it won’t be seen/won’t matter if it’s seen.
To expand on MonkeyMensch about the MIG conversion: the way my little Miller 110v wirefeed unit works is that when I got it, it had a spool of flux-core wire in it but no gas capability, and there’s a threaded hole on the back where it’s set up to accept gas input (with a plastic plug in it since it’s not being used). I used it this way for a couple of years but I eventually got sick of the flux core. To “convert” to MIG you just plug an argon tank in there and switch the spool of wire to non flux-core. The “conversion kit” is probably just a pressure regulator and a six foot hose with the proper ends on it.
Regarding the cart: I’ve still never bothered to make myself one. My welder is small enough and I use it infrequently enough that I just lug it into the middle of the garage and bring the pieces to it. If I was working on anything big that I couldn’t bring to the welder, I’d probably want it on wheels. But when I do decide I want a cart, I’ll be damned if I’m buying one. That’s about my favorite project size.
Gloves: I use big fat leather ones, but they’re really glorified oven mitts. They don’t need to be leather. Most of the work I do I could do bare-handed if it weren’t for the sunburn (I’ve done that – interesting to have a weird non-burned part on the back of your hand and realize that’s the shadow of the last knuckle on your index finger :)) – it’s all small, short welds, so the heat doesn’t really get to me, and I pick up hot stuff with pliers.
Seconded on the automatic visor and having fun. Turning two pieces of metal into one piece of metal is cool. I disagree with Inner Stickler about it being a bad idea to futz around on your own. You’re getting some instruction from an actual teacher; that oughta be enough to get you going safely. When I started, a friend showed me the basics in a couple hours and then turned me loose in his garage. I still have all my fingers, and his house is still standing, and a few weekends of work produced this, which remains the best desk in the world to this day (it is possible I’m biased). I eventually got the little 110 wire feeder and managed to figure it all out by myself with no adult supervision.
So… you don’t use flux core with a MIG, or you just don’t have to? Because the ones at the school all have the argon/whatever mix gas tanks, but I really thought she said the wire had flux… (But I could be wrong–it happened once before, a long time ago.)
It depends. The welder you were using may have been a true MIG welding set-up. That is to say, a solid metal wire being fed into the arc shielded by, I’m guessing, argon gas. You can weld with the gas turned off but I bet it’ll be sputtery and pitted and ugly when done: hence the need for a gas to shield the arc and weld from atmospheric oxygen.
The welders that you looked up for home use, which can produce very nice welds by the way, are hollow wires with a flux core. I welded a set of bannisters for my brother’s back porch from 1" square steel tubing and they look terrific. The flux core boils off or vaporizes in the arc to produce a small shield of gas that won’t allow the molten metal to oxidize with the atmospheric oxygen. When you convert a welder of this type to “true MIG status” you are adding a flow of inert gas around the weld area insuring an even better weld. In fact, when the welder is so converted you no longer need to use flux core wire and can start using solid metal feed wire.
Cool beyond words. The day I used a friend’s photo-reactive visor was the day before I bought one.
I haven’t really had too many problems. The gloves seem to be about twice the weight of the jersey you use to shield your wrists and forearms. And if I get the choice I buy them small.
The point being that if the current is set up correctly for the material being welded there shouldn’t be much splatter and so the gloves are acting as a heat and UV shield.
I like my gloves extremely loose – there’s a maneuver you can do with heavy gloves that are really loose where you just fling your hand toward the floor and the glove flies off in a hurry. I’ve only had need a couple times, but when that need is “hot blob of metal went down your glove”, you want that glove off quick.
I’m not sure what the motivation is for using flux core. Maybe I’m doing it wrong, but even when I do a flawless weld, it’s still got to have all that spatter and brown residue cleaned off it before it’s presentable, which I find annoying. I guess it’s convenient that everything you need is in one self-contained box, as opposed to having to lug a tank around too. And you don’t have to pay for gas.
On preview, I see you asking more about the flux core. My impression is that the intended setup is either: A) gas + solid wire (no flux core), or B) no gas + flux core wire. I’m sure you could weld with gas and flux core, and maybe that’s what your instructor was doing, but I don’t really know what the point would be – I think the flux would cause more of a mess than you’d get with solid wire, and wouldn’t be adding any benefit because you already have gas. Plus it seems like a waste of flux core wire, but that may not really be an issue. I don’t know their relative prices.
For almost any application, you’re going to have nicer looking welds if you use a true shielding gas, whether or not there’s flux in the wire. CO2 and CO2-Argon mixes are popular, widely available, and can be significantly cheaper than straight argon. Of course you’re not going to be welding on an industrial scale, and if it were my setup I’d go with 100% argon, as you’ll typically get less spatter.
Again for non-industrial-scale uses, I’d stick with the flux core. It’s not accurate to say that the sole purpose of a flux core is to provide a shielding gas, because the flux also helps in gaining/maintaining penetration on rusty, dirty, oily, or otherwise contaminated parts. Certainly you could switch wire between jobs based on what you’re welding, but again, on a home use scale, you’re probably better off just sticking with one to avoid the hassle of changing (unless what you’re welding changes so much that you need different wire sizes anyway).
Now… you indicated that this was steel sculpturing, right? So I can presume that there’s nothing related to safety or structural integrity involved, right? If that’s the case I won’t have to sell you on the idea of saws, steel polishing, etching compounds, and proper metallographic examination of the joint, then.
Some comments that may be helpful.
Sweeteviljesus suggested a “stick” (SMAW) welder. I strongly endorse this. The machines are very basic, or can be; very reliable and very versatile, in that filler metal can be changed immediately with no fiddling with wire feeders and shielding gas, nor the expense of having to purchase a minimum reel weight that you would with MIG.
The leads (welding cable) can be incredibly long before voltage drop becomes a real issue- so you can get to work almost anywhere. No cart needed. MIG is limited in cable length, especially with softer wires, and doesn’t like any kinks or bends. Stick also tolerates less than good grounding, i.e. ability to start an arc and establish weld parameters.
With a carbon-arc gun ( sometimes called air-arc) & air compressor, you can pierce, groove and wash welds in most metals. A stick machine (constant current) is immediately adaptable to TIG, or Heli-arc welding, which can weld anything but the crack in yer ass.
You should look into Nomex for a leather alternative.
You will want a grinder, and that brings me to question #6- learn to recognise any and all fire hazards prior to working, wherever you are. Grinders throw sparks further than welding processes, generally. The hot metal will imbed itself in glass- windshield or garage window. Invest in good fire extinguishers and large amounts of baking soda. Use sheetmetal and/or plywood to shield concrete that will be exposed to slag/dross.
You’ve got lots of good information so far, but I just wanted to add a few comments.
Solid wire with gas shielding will give the cleanest welds, no slag to chip. Very convenient if making multiple passes. However, if you’re working in an area with a lot of air movement you may find that the gas blows away from the weld area before it has a chance to do it’s job. In that case flux cored wire is supposed to be better. I’m told that it’s not as much of an issue with an industrial class welder as that have adjustable gas flow rates. Home class machines generally don’t have this.
Be careful when grinding! I ruined a car window one time because I didn’t realize that the removed material was going that far and fast. :smack: And if you’re not careful, a grinder with a cup brush will do a wonderful job of removing fingerprints!
If you have 220 volt power available in your work area you’ll be better off. If not you’ll need at least a 20A circuit.
I’m probably not going to have 220 power available, so I’ll have to get one of the lower powered models. And I’ll definitely need a grinder because since I’m doing sculptural pieces (and thus as Balthisar mentioned, will not be as concerned with structural integrity–it will just need to be strong enough to support itself, generally) that will need to have really, really clean joints, and a plasma cutter because most stuff will probably involve lots of curved and/or complex edges. I know from experience that both of those things create a very exciting light show of sparks, so I’ll have to really plan my work space to account for that.
Thanks for all the info and advice–keep it coming if you think of more!
From my very limited experience with flux core wire is that the polarity of the cables need to be opposite than when using solid wire with gas. Can anyone confirm this or is it just because I’m in the southern hemisphere?
An alternative to leather is (I’m transliterating back from Norwegian here, so this might not be the phrase in English) carbon-kevlar or neothermal (insulated neoprene) gloves.
Those appear to be aproximately the same as the ones I’ve used in the foundry, but mine were locally bought and I can’t 100% rule out a leather component from the online description of the above. I’ll testify that the neoprene gloves work for the most important bits (sparks and drop-offs) but aren’t 100% when it comes to UV protection. But, as you said you were looking for the next-best-thing, that’s what I remembered.
In theory, any high-heat gloves should do the trick, but a tip is in order - always buy them a size or two larger than your hands. If there’s one thing you want to be able to get off immediately, it’s damaged welding gloves. And if you find some that works for you, buy a dozen - when you’re doing recreational welding, time flies.
Hi Opal!
It is a damn shame you like in a different state. I do a lot of what your getting yourself into!! Your gonna have loads of fun.
I just now got a plasma cutter. For a long time I used a metl blade jig saw and Beverly shears to do most of my cutting and shaping (along with grinders and sanders) I use a 110 Mig welder. I prefer the Argon gas instead of flux core wire. Just a cleaner weld. The plasma cutter is run off the Air compressor and has a special plug (110) which I bought at Home Depot and replaced a standard 110.
I have also made a propane blacksmith forge to heat metal to hammer into different shapes. It also grand for hardening and tempering metal!. I can also turn it on its side and add a cap and use it to melt brass and aluminum for sand casting!
Sorry lost my train of thought. As for gloves. Wear loose fitting stuff, when you need to get your glove off you need to get it off fast! I learned that blacksmithing but is just a true for welding (just a lot less likely. Also, Harbor Freight sell welding blankets a nice non-leather fire resistant material. If your sewing ability is reasonable making a welding mitt or glove should be no problem. I rarely use welding gloves for my gun hand, just a loose fitting cotton glove, the heat fire resistant glove for the holding hand is a bit more of a need.
Best of luck to you and hope you find as much joy chasing the hobby as I have!
If I can help in any way drop me a line or if for some strange reason you find yourself in Huntsville Alabama, come by and hang out in the shop!
An air compressor is all I’ve used for my plasma cutter. I’ve had it for over ten years, and like it so much, I no longer use my gas torch anymore for cutting. It sure is sweet! I also replaced my acetylene with propane on the rare occasions I need it. Doesn’t burn as hot, but still effective for my cutting when I combine it with the oxygen. I use 220 with my plasma cutter, but some models just use a regular outlet of 110. I’ve cut as much as a half inch thick metal with mine, but you will be going very slow with it when cutting that thick. 110 should easily cut through a quarter of inch, I would think.
There’s a very common welding book that is quite popular, that has a wealth of tips in it, although I can’t think of the title at the moment, perhaps it’s just “Welding Handbook”, but I imagine a lot are titled that. It’s a red paperback, and is probably in many places selling welding equipment. Lot’s of good tips in it.
Get a good helmet that covers most of the top part of your head. Too many cheap ones only go partial. You may need to wear bandanas or a backwards cap under it anyway. It’ll help keep from burning your hair and top of your head.
It’s also nice to have the bigger lens too. Also beware of many of those helmets which automatically have the lens darken when the arc is started. I’ve seen a hell of a lot of damage from people’s eyes and their faces sunburned very severely by a defective lens. They seem to get over it, but many swore never to go back to that kind of lens again. I’m guessing they are doing better now with this kind of technology, and I guess some brand name lens are better than others, but don’t really know.
Always have a fan directing the smoke away from you when possible or figure out a way not to breath the fumes; especially the fumes from galvanized metal and other certain metals, because some of their fumes are much more serious. Do a search engine on “metal fume fever”.
