chuckles
I’d like to think that my co-workers are honest. If you work in an office environment, you should be able to leave your personal belongings in your own area without having to worry about it getting taken. You have to interact with and relate to your co-workers every day - they’re basically like a kind of family. There should be a mutual trust and respect there.
I don’t think it’s your fault, Otto. I hope the theif’s conscience catches up with him/her.
Well, I am not posting to kick Otta, because I don’t think he is down. He is fully in his rights to complain. I am merely arguing that Scylla wasn’t being an asshole in his contention that partial blame goes to Otto for leaving his ipod in the middle of his work space. Sure, it wasn’t expected, it was a crime, and otto cannot be held resposible in anyway, but that doesn’t allieviate his MISTAKE. Yes, he made a mistake, and mistakes constitute blame, but only a minor percentage.
Speaking of context, talking about locked houses and illegal entry are also taking Otto’s situation out of context. If he had his Ipod in a lockbox and it was stolen, there would be absolutely NO blame, partial or full upon his person. Leaving a 300 dollar piece of highly coveted technology on a table in a place of employment where most people don’t consider temps even REAL employees (yes, I was a temp for awhile, and this attitude is pretty pervasive) is not locking his house. It is like putting his couch in his driveway, and bitching that somebody came along in the night and stole it. It is partially his fault for making such an obvious mistake.
Sometimes you gotta learn the hard way. I know I have, many times. Each time the situation was in my control, or would have been had I been thinking and using my “common sense.” (god, I hate that word)
Earlier today I went to the school library and sat down at a computer that wasn’t in use. Except some guy left his flash drive in the computer. Now, if I had stolen it, it would have been my fault for being a thief, legally. But I didn’t break into the guys house to steal it, it was only there because he neglected to secure it. His fault, the fault being putting it in danger of loss. Not for the loss itself. Note the difference.
Now, me being a nice guy, wrote him an email (his name was on it, and student names are searchable for email addys), told him it was at the security desk and dropped it off there. If some guy had stolen it instead, partial blame would have been on him.
If some guy mugged him, there is no blame whatsoever. Big difference between neglect, and reasonable means.
I’m curious how those who think Otto is to blame here manage their possessions in an office environment. Do you carry everything around with you? That must have been an interesting first day on the job:
“Would you like to hang up your jacket and umbrella?”
“Oh, you’d like that wouldn’t you, stickyfingers. I don’t think so. No, they’re staying with me.”
Not everything. Just hot new products that everyone wants and weigh a few ounces. I feel for the guy, but I’d never leave an iPod on my desk at work no matter how long I worked there…
I don’t think anyone is saying that Otto is at fault, per se. I think it’s just being pointed out that he didn’t take any reasonable precautions against this happening, which at least for me, makes me a whole lot less sympathetic.
Yeah, thieves are assholes. But people who are utterly stunned - stunned! I tell you! - when their trendy $200 gadget is no longer sitting out unattended in a public place when they get back.
Anyway, I’m in the camp that thinks that iPods have become idiotic in their trendiness, so I really don’t have a whole lot of sympathy. Also, the rape analogy being tossed around is just idiotic.
No, it’s really not. And I didn’t say that it was. It’s an analogy. What I am saying is that in my opinion, responding to a crime victim by explaining how it’s their fault for being victimized sucks and is the act of an asshole. If someone posted about being raped and Scylla or someone else came in and said that an action the rape victim took was like posting a sign that said “rape me,” the outrage would be universal. Yet as a victim of a robbery I get blamed for it and called an asshole for calling the person blaming me for getting robbed an asshole.
Actually Otto, you weren’t the victim of a robbery. Robbery involves the use or threat of force.
No, but there is such a thing as common sense. A jacket and umbrella aren’t going to attract thieves like an iPod will. And an iPod fits in a person’s pocket, so there’s really no excuse not to do that.
Robin
I’m really sorry to hear your iPod got stolen Otto. That’s a really scummy thing for anyone to do, and it would really shake my confidence in my workmates to know one of them was a petty thief. It really changes your perception of the whole workplace.
I just found out this morning that our car (and the one next to it) was broken into, while parked in our secured garage. The thieves simply turned the video cameras to face a different direction. They got a big bag of expensive books and a pocket knife. We’re lucky we didn’t lose more, but I know exactly how might be feeling. A place you were led to believe was secure isn’t anymore. 
I leave stuff out unattended all the time. My car is in the lot, currently unlocked. My house is probably unlocked. It’s the way things are here.
I respect my coworkers and demonstrate that respect my trusting them. They’ve never let me down.
Auditioning for the part of Ricky Roma at the community theatre?
Stranger
Wow. This thread is really ugly…
I hope you get your iPod back, Otto.
And I know you will probably dismiss what I’m about to tell you as foolishness and nonsense, but hey, sometimes that’s fun.
When I was traveling in India (in another lifetime it sometimes seems), we were in Dharamsala, the home of Tibetan Buddhism and the Dalai Lama. We became close with several Brits we met there, (India is crawling with them!), as well as the Tibetan’s that ran our guesthouse. Well there was this one Brit whenever we turned around he had lost something. His journal, his ticket, his musicplayer, his cd, the list was endless.
Whenever we would make plans to go and do something together we would inevitably end up waiting around the guesthouse lounge while there was mad searching for one or another lost items. Of course this led to discussions about who’s fault all this was, did he lose it, or leave out and it was stolen? And, not unlike this conversation, it almost always came down to blame for us.
So one afternoon, we are engaged in this very activity, of course we are less patient each day, and more willing to blame the Brit entirely. But the Tibetans, I swear, grew more amused with each incident. We were getting snarkier as they were getting more and more giggles out of the whole ever repeating scenario.
One day, by chance, I was left behind after they’d all left. I was surprised the Tibetans gathered and enjoyed a full on laugh for about 20 mins, I could not help but join in with them. They mimiced not only the Brit and his frantic search but also us and our every growing impatience and snark, we were wiping tears from our eyes we were all laughing so hard. It was a very interesting turn of events for me. I thought about it all afternoon.
Late in the day I went out onto the balcony and had a quiet time with Norbu who was tending the plants, I was still thinking about what I’d seen. I couldn’t help but bring it up, I needed to understand what had happened. So I sort of said something along the lines of, “That Brit, he loses everything!”. He then kindly explained to me the assumption most Tibetans would make that the Brit had been a thief in his last life. And that the rules of Karma dictate that this life everytime he turns around his things will be gone missing. All the more amusing for them to hear us blame him, he should take more care, be more cautious. How silly, in that world view, it wouldn’t matter how cautious he was, his things would still get lost.
Now I’m not saying you should let go of all responsibilities and just accept fate. But it can be fun to play with another point of view. Because in the end, they weren’t looking to blame themselves in a self loathing sort of way, more in a “in my last life I must have…” sort of way. Much more accepting in some ways. Also they didn’t blame the loser, he can’t help it, it’s his karma. And there was no need to blame the taker, or thief, as he’s creating his own bad karma and deserves only our pity, poor creature.
You may think it’s silly, most westerners do I’d have to say. But they never grew impatient, cast blame to either loser or taker, or really spent an iota of energy getting upset about something they couldn’t change. It definitely gave me something to think about, and, as you can see I didn’t forget it.
Just something to amuse you and trick you into stretching your mind to think in another way (don’t worry you don’t have to stay).
We now return you to your normal discussion of blame…
I guess what’s surprising to me is the idea that you’re supposed to assume your office coworkers are a bunch of thieves. We’re not talking about leaving possessions unattended at a bus station. I mean, obviously one of Otto’s coworkers is a thief, so in this case that would have been the correct assumption, but is this type of theft so common that it should have been the default assumption?
Most offices aren’t really all that secure. Stuff gets swiped by people who aren’t your co-workers. Some thieves simply walk in and look around to see what they can walk out with. So taking precautions shouldn’t be thought of as an insult to your co-workers.
One must acknowledge the way things really are, not the way they should be. You should be able to leave your iPod unattended. In this world, however, if you do that it is likely to be stolen. If Otto replaces it and continues to leave it on his desk, it’s going to be stolen again.
With and iPod? Yes.
iPods are among the most desired, most stealable items a person can own. The NYPD has to explain their rising Subway theft figures as a function of iPod ownership. They are such an easy and lucrative target of opportunity that when crime is otherwise falling, petty theft is rising, entirely due to iPod theft.
Leaving an iPod unattended and visible is an extremely foolish thing to do, it’s tantamount to leaving a stack of $20’s sitting unattended on your desk. There are enough people of questionable honor around to make its theft very likely.
Absolutely. I worked in a high rise with keycard doors off all the elevators. We had 20+ laptops stolen in less than 3 months. A guy dressed up in a suit, and followed employees into the door after the employees had carded in. He stole the laptops out of lawyers’ offices (with a secretarial cube right outside each door), then walked out. He was eventually caught in another law firm, at which point we found some of our laptops at his apartment.
Then again, we had several hundred thousand dollars of computer equipment and parts disappear, and despite hiring several former FBI guys to investigate, they never found if it was an inside job (which it almost had to have been, given limited access to the parts inventory).
So yeah, always protect your personal stuff, regardless of how honest you think your co-workers are.
Well, I didn’t know this. If I had an iPod it would never occur to me that it was more theft worthy than my coat, or my book, or the vitamins I leave in my open office.
I think the OP has just learned a lesson that many of us have already learned: guard your shit at all times. I had my prized bike stolen out of my bedroom - I left the window open. I accept that the theft was partially my fault. The OP is just too mad to admit that right now.
And I’m sorry this is a bit harsh but anyone who leaves an iPod just sitting out unattended anywhere (except your own home) is just asking for it.