Some suggestions regarding the situation around George Floyd's death. Are these ideas simplistic?

[k9bfriender]

@sps49sd

There is no specific clause protecting dirty cops, of course. Dirty cops use the same protections every member has against capricious firings and discipline.

Including being covered by their boys in blue.

So, you say that there is nothing in the union contract that protects dirty cops, and yet, you want to use dirty cops as an excuse to get rid of unions.

At that point? Was ‘the union’ there as a witness? Of course not. Police officers are given the benefit of the doubt, so other witnesses and/ or video is very helpful. If the members of the union are embarassed by that conduct, they can try to make an issue of it in the next negotiation- but I say from personal experience that there is insulation between leaders of my union and us feets on the grouns, and going against their ‘suggestions’ is a good way to never be a streward, never be a delegate, never have your voice heard unless you agree. I could make a topic on this elsewhere.

Very often, yes. A member of the union was there as a witness.

If the other witnesses are people that the cop arrested as a criminal, their testimony is going to be given exactly how much weight?

I’m still not seeing how the union makes cops cover for eachother, nor how how getting rid of the unions will make them stop.

I don’t know where you got the notion I would support any of that.

I’m not sure what you mean. I said quite a bit that you quoted, and I am assuming that you don’t not support all of it. (sorry grammar fairy, your sacrifice was necessary.)

Unions protect union members from arbitrary and capricious firings. What would you consider to be a fireable offense without a union?

I own my own business, and if I had an employee that a client took a disliking to, for any reason at all, I could fire that employee with no repercussion. If they were unionized, I could not.

If a cop pulls over a local politician or plutocrat, and doesn’t let him off he hook for his DUI because of who he is, who are you saying is going to protect this cop’s job?

Democrat bashing? Okay, I’ll include Willie Brown and his influence during some union negotiations. In another topic.

No idea what this is in reference to.

@Kearsen1

It’s never ever going to be enough, or fast enough, or strong enough, or fair enough for some folks.

No, it certainly was not fast, strong, or fair enough for George Floyd.

If someone has their knee on your neck, how quickly and completely would you like them to remove it?

But for most folks, there is enough. With the 24 hr news cycle , everything is about race (even when it’s not)

Right, most of us are white, and so it’s never about race, even when it is.

[split_p_j]

No, you can make a case that’s it’s about its about police in general though, and what the protests really should have been about. The narrative that it is open season on black people is total bs. It’s finally coming out, this guy was a career criminal totally fucked up on fentanyl trying to pass fake twenties, that used to work with his murderer. Did he deserve to die for that? No of course not and like I already said, this is a case of police corruption.

As a near 50 year old black man I agree with Candace Owens views on this.

[Acsenray]

According to a co-worker, Floyd and Chauvin not only knew each other, they had clashed over Chauvin’s rough treatment of nightclub patrons

Update: Nightclub Co-Worker Retracts Story That Chauvin and Floyd Clashed

[split_p_j]

Yes, the whole story is starting to come out all over now. A little late though.

[Acsenray]

@split_p_j

Yes, the whole story is starting to come out all over now. A little late though.

It’s not too late to charge Chauvin with first-degree murder.

[split_p_j]

That is what have been done in the first place, like I said. The facts will show that it was is an issue of police corruption, not race, and this is why the protesters are fighting the wrong issue.

[iiandyiiii]

@split_p_j

That is what have been done in the first place, like I said. The facts will show that it was is an issue of police corruption, not race, and this is why the protesters are fighting the wrong issue.

Corruption is part of this issue.

[thorny_locust]

It’s still not the wrong issue. If it was deliberate murder (which isn’t proven), then Chauvin thought he could get away with murder in public and on camera. If he thought this at least in part because the victim was black, then it’s still racist.

‘Nobody’s gonna care if I murder a black guy’ is racist, even if one’s reasons for murdering that particular black guy aren’t because of his race.

[Acsenray]

@split_p_j

That is what have been done in the first place, like I said. The facts will show that it was is an issue of police corruption, not race, and this is why the protesters are fighting the wrong issue.

There is no way you can disentangle race from that situation. It absolutely is a race issue, in addition to a police corruption issue. our system allows police to be more corrupt based on the race of the cops’ victims.

Indeed, our entire police system has its genesis in racial domination. That has never changed.

And it has been long past time for this powder keg to explode. The movement sparked across the country isn’t some kind of mistake.

[Acsenray]

@Acsenray

According to a co-worker, Floyd and Chauvin not only knew each other, they had clashed over Chauvin’s rough treatment of nightclub patrons

Nightclub co-worker retracts story that Chauvin and Floyd clashed.

The co-worker recanted the story –

Update: Nightclub Co-Worker Retracts Story That Chauvin and Floyd Clashed

[Pantastic]

@Mdcastle

My solution: prosecute each and everyone setting fires, looting, blocking traffic, committing assaults, etc to the fullest extent of the law. If you want to protest you can do so without being a criminal.

Question: Does this include the cops doing these things? Because there is a ton of video out there now of cops looting, blocking traffic (including slashing tires to prevent people from being able to leave areas of unrest), and assaulting people (especially medics and journalists).

[DrDeth]

@Pantastic

Question: Does this include the cops doing these things? Because there is a ton of video out there now of cops looting, blocking traffic (including slashing tires to prevent people from being able to leave areas of unrest), and assaulting people (especially medics and journalists).

Cite on cops looting?

[DrDeth]

@Acsenray

…
Indeed, our entire police system has its genesis in racial domination. That has never changed.
…

That is false.

Geez, nowadays someone will come along with some examples that proves that whatever they dont like is rooted in racism. Guns. Police. Whatever.

It aint.

The Police are rooted in British History- you know, the dudes who banned slavery early?

[k9bfriender]

@DrDeth

Cite on cops looting?

https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/ct-chicago-police-looting-popcorn-20200611-je3afw3lxbhknicv37ijnncgkq-story.html

[k9bfriender]

@DrDeth

That is false.

Geez, nowadays someone will come along with some examples that proves that whatever they dont like is rooted in racism. Guns. Police. Whatever.

It aint.

The Police are rooted in British History- you know, the dudes who banned slavery early?

So, to you, Bull Conner wasn’t a cop?

While I will agree that the police had several reasons to come about, and only one of them was to capture slaves, you are not only ignoring the fact that it was one of the reasons for the establishment of police forces, you are also completely ignoring recent history if you try to say that law enforcement was not an integral part of racial segregation.

[D_Anconia]

@k9bfriender

https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/ct-chicago-police-looting-popcorn-20200611-je3afw3lxbhknicv37ijnncgkq-story.html

Your cite doesn’t say the cops were looting. :rolleyes:

[k9bfriender]

@D_Anconia

Your cite doesn’t say the cops were looting. :rolleyes:

:dubious:
Please cite the part where they were given permission by the owners of the property to take it.

[DrDeth]

@k9bfriender

https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/ct-chicago-police-looting-popcorn-20200611-je3afw3lxbhknicv37ijnncgkq-story.html

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Making themselves a cup of coffee is by no-ones definition “looting”. Calling making a cup off coffee- even without stated permission “looting” cheapens the term and makes it meaningless. It’s like calling character assassination = murder.

[k9bfriender]

@DrDeth

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Making themselves a cup of coffee is by no-ones definition “looting”. Calling making a cup off coffee- even without stated permission “looting” cheapens the term and makes it meaningless. It’s like calling character assassination = murder.

Looting, also referred to as sacking, ransacking, plundering, despoiling, despoliation, pillaging, and marauding, is the theft of taking of goods by force as part of a military or political victory, or during a catastrophe, such as war, natural disaster, or rioting.

They took goods that did not belong to themselves during a riot.

Is it because they were cops, so they can’t loot? Is it because what they stole was not worth all that much, so you wouldn’t consider it to be looting?

Unless you are saying that anyone who peacefully walked into Target and walked out with a coffee maker also is not a looter, then I really don’t see how you can justify it when a cop does the same thing.

[DrDeth]

@k9bfriender

So, to you, Bull Conner wasn’t a cop?

While I will agree that the police had several reasons to come about, and only one of them was to capture slaves, you are not only ignoring the fact that it was one of the reasons for the establishment of police forces, you are also completely ignoring recent history if you try to say that law enforcement was not an integral part of racial segregation.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
What the fuck does Bull Conner, who served in the 1950’s, have to do with the false factoid that the origins of Police in the USA are rooted in racism?

Police go back to the early 1800s, maybe before. That is 150 years later.

Using Bull Conner as a example about the history and origins of Police is like using Apollo 11 as a example of the history and origins of human flight.

No, I dont have to admit that at all, as the Peelers , possible the first police force, and upon whom modern policing in the USA and most everywhere is based- had fuckall to do with capturing slaves.

https://www.badgeandwallet.com/news/brief-history-law-enforcement
*In 1631, Boston became the first U.S city to establish a night watch. New Amsterdam (later New York City) soon followed suit in 1647. In the late 18th and 19th Centuries, “regulators” (vigilantes) became commonplace in many U.S cities. Their role was to enforce order in areas where there was none.

It wasn’t until 1829 that the Metropolitan Police Act was passed and the London Metropolitan Police Department was formed. The structure of the department was based on the military. This law enforcement model went on to influence police departments in Great Britain, the British Commonwealth and the United States.

In the middle of the 19th Century in the U.S, laws were passed in order to regulate social behaviour, and penitentiaries, asylums and official police forces were established. New York City was the first to have an official police department in 1844. The NYPD was based on the London Metropolitan Police Department. Soon after, departments were established in New Orleans and Cincinnati (1852), Boston and Philadelphia (1854), Chicago and Milwaukee (1855), and Baltimore and Newark (1857). Authority over police was left to neighbourhoods and neighbourhood leaders. Officers didn’t wear uniforms and the initial function of the police was to prevent crimes. Once this proved a very difficult task, one of their main purposes became investigating crimes that had already been committed. The first detective unit began in New York City in 1857.*

Now sure, in the Deep South they had 'slave patrols". So? The police began as a way to patrol cities, not slaves. It wasnt in any way shape or form a “reason for the establishment of police forces”. It was a corruption of already establish policing.

That isnt to say that the police, being a tool of the government- have been misused- as any tool can be- isnt a reason to think that police - like a hammer- is a bad tool.

Yes, the police have been mis-used. They have been bad police.