Based on what you have relayed there is 99.99% chance she is confined for her own good and is more than likely delusional. Winding yourself into knots over the infinitesimal chance this is some intricate and nefarious plot to deprive her of her liberty is not the best way to go here.
Zsofia,
What a terrifying situation to be in, for both of you! For you, obviously, because you are in a position where someone is depending on you to help them, but you have no way of knowing what kind of help they truly need. For her, well, even if the hospital is the best possible place for her right now, she is nevertheless going through probably the most traumatic experience of her life.
My own thoughts: unless you are in a position to hire a lawyer who specializes in such cases, there’s not a whole lot you can do for her at this point. Contacting the patient advocate might be of some benefit - depending on the particular advocate, the particular hospital, the laws of that state, etc. Of course, if one of her doctors is the evil, mustache-twisting sort, all the doctor needs to do is decree that she would be upset by meeting with a patient advocate, and suddenly there’s a conflict between her rights to access such an advocate and her doctor’s view of whether that fits her treatment plan. I’m not sure how such a thing plays out typically, but I’ve read example after example where the patient’s rights take a back seat to the doctor’s recommendations.
One possible suggestion, if she has the opportunity to contact you again, is to suggest that she “play along” for the time being. Clearly, one of the aspects of all this is that she’s resisting treatment - whether she belongs there or not, this is hampering her. If she were to make a point of showing improvement, especially in terms of compliance, that would likely get her out faster. Likewise, if she were able to set up an appointment with an outpatient therapist, the people in charge would likely be more willing to discharge her sooner, knowing that she’ll be in professional hands on the outside. This might not be the best avenue, especially if she is determined to fight a legal battle against the hospital - but it could be her best bet to get discharged sooner rather than later.
The last thing that comes to mind for me is that she is turning to you as a trusted friend - but this is not how you feel about her. Unless you manage to “betray” her, by brushing her off completely or taking the side of her oppressors, she will likely feel the need to turn to you for further help. Setting appropriate boundaries will be very difficult. Even if she wasn’t “crazy” before, the trauma of this experience will likely leave her vulnerable and needy.
Many people who go through this sort of thing lose family, spouses, and friends, because those people are not capable of dealing with the aftereffects of that kind of trauma. However you decide to approach this situation, I hope that… ah, Hell. I don’t know what I hope. Just be careful, and be as honest you can be.
This is really kind of suspicious. The part where husband said they “dont know how she got a call out” doesnt gel. Patients in mental hospitals retain the right to make and receive phone calls. Smething is off about this story
A real life ‘Shutter Island’
While she certainly could be pregnant for real, I would not be at all surprised if the “pregnancy” turned out to be a delusion that’s part of her illness. I’ve seen that kind of thing before.
Especially if, as I’m reading between the lines, she had/has cancer. Mental illness has been known to create the delusion that a tumor is a pregnancy, and modern chemo side effects mimic morning sickness.
But that’s awfully speculative, so I’ll stop now.
Even if HIPAA prevents a patient advocate from talking to you, it does not prevent them from *listening *to you and investigating the care of a patient in their hospital. You give them the information you have, and they say, “Thank you so much for calling; I will look into it,” and while you don’t know the end of the story, they will investigate. That’s exactly their job, and any case of suspected abuse or neglect by a family member or by hospital staff is taken seriously.
Is the system perfect? No, sadly, it isn’t. But patient advocates, by and large, really are competent professionals who care about the integrity of their institutions and the well-being of their patients. It’s why they became patient advocates, more often than not, because they saw abuse in the system and want to do everything they can to eliminate it.
I know a woman who faked cancer then faked pregnancy, and had some fairly severe mental health issues. I know TWO other people who faked cancer, and have a girlfriend who has spent more time in the oncologists office looking for cancer she doesn’t have than my sister - who is a breast cancer survivor has - it is possible that the whole “I know she WAS ill thing because she didn’t have hair” was part of her mental illness.
I would question all information you’ve ever gotten from her. Obviously HR knows something, her husband knows, and she probably has other family. You can, as WhyNot suggests, call the patient advocate. They won’t be able to tell you much or calm your fears, but they don’t make a lot of money - if you are going to cover up abuse and act unethically, pick something more lucrative than a patient advocate. There are plenty of lucrative jobs for people without ethics. But then drop it and assume that your work friend is delusional and is getting help.
What about checking with other family members?
The husband seems to be the wrong person to call, but maybe there are others who are care about her, and may share some info with you…or even thank you for notifying them that she has problems.
You may know nothing about her family , but you could try doing a little detective work .Check a few online databases to see if you can find any previous adresses for your friend. You think she is 45, but if she is 35 years old, she may have lived with her parents as recently as , say, 10 years ago, and you may be able to find them, or siblings or whatever. (If you are really concerned, maybe even hire a private detective -it should only take him a few hours of work )
To me, it seems at least as likely that your friend gave your name to her husband herself.
In looking at this thread it’s astounding to me how many people think there’s something potentially nefarious going on to the point her husband needs to be bypassed to get “the real story” vs the overwhelming probability she is delusional and being institutionalized for her own good.
Think about it from his side (assuming the likely scenario): His wife is dealing with a serious mental illness, so bad that she’s been institutionalized. His life is in turmoil dealing with this and now someone he barely knows that his delusional wife contacted is checking up and prying into a very personal and sensitive issue. Assuming his story is on the up-and-up there’s no way you’re going to get a warm reception from him.
HR may just be trying to prevent this from becoming more of a disaster than it can be.
Which isn’t to say that you shouldn’t follow up on this, but be prepared to get a chilly reception and make things worse in the short run.
They shut down the phone for 911, but she could get a call out to you? That alone sounds delusional enough for me to discount her entire story. I also agree that she probably gave your name and contact info to her husband, or he found evidence of the call himself.
That could well be true. But I think a lot of people who get committed to mental institutions against their will have difficult relationships with their family members. Whether they’re difficult to get along with, or whether their family members are all jerks or whether they really are crazy are all possibilities, but the people they’re having a hard time getting along with are the most likely to just decide for themselves that they’re crazy.
IMO, most posters in this thread are putting too much confidence in the mental health system (WRT this story and lovebeagles). Studies have shown that given a random sample of people, psychiatrists do not have a very good track record in identifying which people have mental health issues and which don’t. If someone has alienated their family to the point where the family members decide to have them institutionalized, I have very little confidence that the mental health professionals would be able to see through it.
Anecdote: Many years ago, I worked with a woman who, while she was in nursing school in the early 1970s, did a clinical rotation at a state mental institution for women who were not guilty by reason of insanity, and it was really obvious why most of them were there. There was, however, one woman who seemed more normal than those of us out in the community, so she asked an employee why that woman was there.
The response? “She killed her parents. She’s the most dangerous patient we’ve ever had here.”
:eek:
The fact that she can call you is a good thing. See if you can visit her: psychiatric institutions are more careful about the treatment of a patient who wants out if they get visitors, especially multiple visitors and people other than those who were instrumental in getting them locked up.
Some institutions that might otherwise discharge someone after an observation period will not do so if that person has nowhere to go. That somewhere need not be your guest bedroom in your own house. You can help her secure some kind of arrangement if need be. Consider the local Coalition against Domestic Violence (they will have seen this behavior before, spousal psychiatrization as a form of assault). Or she may have the resources to rent a room somewhere. Help her arrange a place to go other than the house she shares with the husband who had her locked up in the damn looney bin.
Psych institutions exist in part to put away people who are disturbing to other people. Shrinks dont run down the sidewalk throwing nets over random people and hauling them off to be psychiatrized, but when relatives complain they are often disposed to investigate, to look closely to see if they see signs of mental illness that requires treatment, and where they look for it they often see it.
There are attorneys who specialize in the rights of psych patients, especially to represent them at commitment hearings and hearings to authorize involuntary medication (in some venues such as NY being committed involuntarily doesn’t take away your right to refuse meds so they have separate hearings to authorize that). Your friend most likely is no more prepared than you or the average person on the street and isn’t carrying around such an attorney’s contact info on a business card. Do the research and when your friend calls again, pass along some names. In New York the organization is called Mental Hygiene Legal Services; names will differ in different venues. Contact NARPA with your locale information (where this bin is AT) and ask where you can find the appropriate legal representation.
NARPA may also be able to put you in touch with mental patients’ liberation movement activists (we’re organized! well, sort of!) who may come and visit and reassure / bolster your friend’s impression that outrageous things are being done to her that other people ought to care about.
Oh, and if your locale is in the NY area, contact me back-channel, maybe I can play a role.
I totally had no idea that kinda thing even existed. Or I woulda made use of it decades ago. Live & learn, I guess.
Alternately, the husband might have been trying to keep the ugly details from HR to avoid ruining her reputation at work.
I’m not sure what studies you are referring to. Were these studies of a specific diagnosis? Were these recent studies? Psychiatry has changed a lot over the years as people have learned more about the brain, it’s worth noting.
Psychosis is real, and floridly psychotic people are not people you would ever mistake for being healthy and normal. Perhaps one psychiatrist might attribute the psychosis to bipolar disorder and another one might call it schizoaffective disorder depending on what history they have available. Regardless of the name they give it, though, it’s very clear when a psychotic person is not thinking clearly just from talking to the person for a few minutes.
Several years ago, a woman I worked with experienced something that I am certain was a manic episode. She was always a bit hyperactive anyway, but ZOMG she was something else. Among other things, she developed an obsession with black mold, for which the department was repeatedly tested (the tests always came up negative) and at one point, I told her that if she mentioned black mold again during the shift, I would call security and have her escorted out. I meant it, too. She was also extremely grandiose, and everyone just ignored her outrageous ideas for how the place should be run because they didn’t make any sense.
IDK if her meds were adjusted or the episode simply ended, but she did finally stop acting that way.
Here’s a little caveat from my own experience. I got a call very much like this from my sister once. She was definitely unbalanced in general, but I didn’t know her as someone who needed to be institutionalized. When she called and told me she’d been locked in a psych hospital against her will and begged me to get her out, of course I promised to do exactly that.
Eventually I was able to get her doctor on the phone, who assured me that my sister was right where she needed to be and getting good help. She had taken an overdose, so yes, she needed help. The next day I had a conference call with both of them, and I got an earful from sister dear about what a drama queen I was for making such a big deal out of it. “Why can’t you just support me while I’m trying to get better??!!”
Long story short-if what she wants from you right now isn’t what she actually needs, she’s not going to thank you later for trying to help her get it. My advice is stay out of it. Forget you ever got that call and trust her family and doctors to take good care of her without your help. The chances that you are actually needed here are very very small.