I have a question for the cynical and skeptical types on here! I am a student of music, and in a few of my grad classes, I got into a heated (but civil and respectful) debate on the nature of synesthesia as it pertains to music.
My initial reaction to an inexplicable phenomenon is to call bullshit. My professor attempted to counter by citing examples of people who swore they saw colours when certain pitches were being played. I’ve seen little segments on the Discovery channel when researchers try to see what’s going on in the brain when this “phenomenon” takes place, yet I never bothered to watch them the whole way through.
My first problem with this is that synestheses (or whatever the noun is) can’t seem to agree on what sound produces what colour. There’s no objective “colour” for any type of music or sound, except for very metaphoric language that’s culturally encoded (playing the “blues,” for example).
The example my professor tried to give as the definitive “proof” that this wasn’t a bunch of self-deluded people was Olivier Messiaen, who claimed to have this talent. One of his students, as an anecdote goes, played a very complex chord (some very precise combination of 6 or 7 notes in an octave; like a cluster, but the student made sure to remember which notes he picked). Messiaen described the notes and all the different colours and shades which he felt in there. The student would then replay many years later when they met after a long hiatus. He played the same chord, and Messiaen described the same colours, word for word.
Now, my inclination is to say that it is nothing more than proof of an extremely adept and trained ear. He didn’t see the colours of the notes, because there was nothing for his eyes to perceive. Everything about it seems akin to ESP and teleknesis, and yet I don’t even know how to tackle this problem one way or another.
Where’s the burden of proof? Do I need someone to “prove” to me that they can see colors, and if so, how would one propose going about “proving” that? Or, has there already been studies which prove (or disprove) anything related to this phenomenon?
I have synesthesia regarding letters, numbers, musical notes, chords and keys. Unlike some people I don’t literally “see” the colors, but I know what color an item is. The best analogy would be looking at a black-and-white photo of a landscape. You’re just seeing shades of gray, yet you “know” the grass is green.
One interesting fact is that the synesthesia works in only one direction. I know that the letter “M” is brown, but actually seeing a brown color doesn’t evoke “M-ness.”
Regarding music, I don’t have any idea what it would be like to literally “see” colors based on particular sounds, yet I nevertheless know what the colors are. It shouldn’t be difficult to set up a double-blind experiment; I’d be very interested in the results.
Tough one! I’m not exactly sure how it would be for others. Whenever this came up when studying music, I never thought that they would be “flat” or stationary colors. If something sounded “blue”, wouldn’t the shades still change a lot as the notes play in a "blue"sounding song? SHades of cerrulian, periwinkle and navy mixed in there?
If I had this, I think I would see a #4 minor seventh chord as at least 6 or 7 colors.
The quote is on page two. And if anybody was wondering, Simon Baron-Cohen is related to Sacha Baron Cohen.
Why would there be agreement? This is something that happens in a person’s mind. It’s a property of their brains, not of the words or numbers or whatever triggers it for them. They’re experiencing activation of two senses at the same time, not extrasensory perception. The word for people with synesthesia, by the way, is synesthetes.
I’ve experienced synesthesia as an effect of psylocibin, many years ago - in that case, strains of music brought to mind certain colours. Not being trained to music, it is difficult to describe, but it is I think a ‘real’ neurological effect and has nothing to do with non-rational mental powers.
It is more like a mental association. Many people (for example) have such emotional associations - certain strains of music make them “sad”, “romantic” or “excited”, seem “heavy” or “light”. In certain people (or under the influence of certain drugs) those associations get “crossed” with the parts of the mind that process colour or texture.
Thus is is partly objective (in that for a paerticular person it will be reproducable) and partly subjective, since every person’s perceptions will be different.
Nobody’s claiming that synesthesia is related to the supernatural. The consensus seems to be that it’s a result of increased connectivity between parts of the brain that don’t normally talk to each other. Like any neurological quirk, the details (of what color maps to what sound, etc.) vary from person to person.
Some people get weak mental associations like Malthus’s, others have more direct, sensory-like experiences.
And the fact that the colors perceived are generated by an internal process doesn’t make them any less real than the bright spots you see when you press on your closed eyes, the blind spots in the vision of people who have had strokes, or even normal color vision. (Read up on the background of some famous optical illusions and you’ll see that much of the color and contrast we see is constructed in the brain, not objectively out there.)
Wikipedia gives a good, cite-filled overview of the testing methods used to validate synesthetic experiences. Consistency over time is one measure; even normal synesthetes who aren’t famous composers have awesome test-retest reliability, and you can confuse them on a Stroop test (the color words that are printed in the wrong colors–you’ve probably seen one) using various colored musical stimuli or numbers or what-have-you.
It’s fun stuff–this is why people get excited about brain science.
TED Talks has a really interesting discussion by Dr. Vilyanur Ramachandran on the neurological basis of synesthesia. The relevant part begins at around 17:40, but the whole thing is worth watching if you have time. Fascinating stuff!
I have to reiterate what others have said. Though I’ve had synesthesia since a very early age (and until recently thought I was the only one), there’s nothing supernatural or mystical or irrational about it. It’s not some kind of “gift” or “power” that’s bestowed on some people and not others. It’s just a quirky thing that happens in some people’s brains.
When I have high fever, I have a peculiar synaesthesia involving numbers. “8” gives me a feeling of pressure (as in like being dropped in a vat of gel) and “e” (as in, the base of the natural logarithm) gives me a feeling of “guilt about a murder I’ve committed” (I haven’t committed murder).
stuff you should know did a podcast on this. The tidbit I thought was way cool was an experiment where they had people sort cards with numbers on them (or it might have been 5’s and S’s), anyway, the synesthetes could sort them super-fast because even though the cards were all B&W, they ‘saw’ colors and could sort them out quicker.
Of course not. As others have already said, synesthesia has nothing to do with objective reality. Of course, sound doesn’t actually have color, but that doesn’t mean people can’t perceive it that way.
It’s the same as dreams. Dreams aren’t consistent from person to person (or even for the same person). That’s because dreams don’t accurately represent the real world. But we still experience them.
I don’t know if this relates to the topic since it’s not about music synesthstesia, but there are other kinds. Some people have already mentioned number/color for example. My mom is blind and I’ve been researching this freeware application that uses sound to help blind people navigate. That’s all it was intended to do. However, sight is such a strong sense, that people who had sight and use this have claimed that they are now able to “see” using the program. So far we haven’t tried this with my mom since she’s still easily frustrated at this point. I’m worried with the high learning curve with this product that she’ll try it and quit so we’re waiting while I get everything tested and ready. Hopefully she’ll be able to make the leap and begin to “see” with this product as well.
The nice thing is the longer I hold off, the smaller and smaller the laptops are getting. I’m pretty confident now about getting this to work for her. In just the last year, laptop have gotten noticeably lighter and smaller. I’m just hoping there’s going to be a breakthrough in battery life soon.
Except… it’s not inexplicable. There is a actually an explanation for it now based on brain science.
That’s because synthethesia is based upon unusual brain wiring which varies from person to person. It’s like saying fingerprints don’t exist because no two are alike.
The Man Who Tasted Shapes by Cytowic has already been mentioned but I think the 2009 update Wednesday is Indigo Blue is more what you’re looking for. It’s a discussion of the current state of the science in layman’s terms with a healthy description of how they test for true synesthesia vs. metaphoric associations, which I think is one of the things you’re asking about.
I suggest you get a copy of the book and read it, which should be helpful to your understanding.
I have a little bit of synesthesia (zero is white; five is brown; four is green; two is yellow; nine is indigo; six is blue). I don’t for a minute think it’s supernatural; it’s just some interesting connections in my brain.
