Not sure if this should be here or if it’s Pit-worthy. It is rather mild but it is a rant, so I throw myself upon the mercy of the Mods.
What is up with sound mixers at concerts and shows apparently having no idea how to balance the sound? I saw Cyndi Lauper in concert on Friday. Great show, full of energy, she’s as darling as she ever was, but every time there were any electric instruments her vocal got lost or covered up. Then I went to see the touring company of Mamm Mia last night. Same thing. Good show (not as good as when I saw it on Broadway but still good) but vocals were continuously getting buried under the instruments. The Broadway show had the same problem, although Hairspray, which I saw on the same trip about ten months ago, didn’t. I understand that different theatres have different acoustics so for a tour it will undoubtedly be trickier to get the mix right. But when the show is at its permanent base, say on Broadway, that excuse doesn’t play. At the very least, the mixer should figure out that, hey, it’s a vocalist in concert or a story told through songs, the vocal should be considered the most important part of the mix. Maybe start with the peoposition that when starting the sound check the vocal should be at, like, 8 and the instruments should be at, say, 5 and then balance it from there? But keeping the most important part of the mix, the vocal, way up?
I admittedly don’t go to huge numbers of live venues but three of the last four (noted above) have had this problem. Am I just having bad luck or do others notice the same issue?
No, it’s a fairly common complaint, and the main reason I no longer attend concerts in large venues, even if I get free tickets. When I can mix the sound better myself (and I have, thanks to my university education) there’s no excuse.
Going to a ballet, musical theatre, or conert I tend to sit as close to the sound booth as possible. That’s where the mix sounds best (especially if the sound board is out in the house of the theatre and not isolated somewhere).
All too often the guy behind the board mixes it so it sounds great… but only where happens to be sitting.
I totally identify with this. I’ve seen King’s X and the Ramones in real professional theaters, and both times ended up as far back as possible to actually hear the guitar. With the Ramones, I couldn’t even tell what song they were playing sometimes, and even with the Ramones, that’s pretty bad.
Part of the reason is that good sound people get tired of the constant touring and crap pay and shady assholes (and musicians) involved with the music business. So they move into other areas. They get studio work, or film/tv, or corporate- which is a lot less fun, but pays better and is a much saner lifestyle.
So very true my friend. Another reason is because a frightening number of people who work at live gigs invariably have profound hearing damage as well. I mean seriously, I personally own about $25,000 of recording gear. Making my own private albums is my personal hobby and passion. The very first thing I learnt all those years ago working as an engineer in the Radio and TV jingle business was “protect your ears dude”.
On the rare occasions I see a live gig these days, every time I check out the mixing desks I see guys listening to a 120db of tinnitus inducing cacophony every night - without any hearing protection whatsoever. There’s no way I would go to a live concert without foam ear plugs. I’m not just assuming, rather, I KNOW IT"S GONNA BE UNBEARABLY LOUD.
And yet, the sound mixing guys? Without any hearing protection? It’s almost as though they’re trying to be uber-cool or something - but at the end of the day, they’re simply doing a shit job. A totally shit job because their hearing is just plain fucked. No other way to call it I’m afraid.
There’s a myth that, like booze, sustained exposure to abuse can make your ears “kinda get used to it”. Well, that’s bullshit. Every time your ears are suspected to even one minute of damaging piercing sounds, that’s a bit of permanent damage you’ve done to your hearing - forever. It never repairs itself.
In short, most of the people who work on mixing desks at live gigs are dumb fucks. It’s hard to get a great mix when it’s being left up to dumb fucks I find.
It doesn’t have to be this way, though. I saw (ahem) the Eagles a few years ago at Wembley stadium (since demolished) - a huge football stadium. We were quite a way from the stage and I was expecting the worst. I swear it sounded as good as a CD (and like Boo Boo Foo, I’ve got a fair bit of recording gear and agree completely with the need to protect your ears; aging is going to knock some of the top-end off anyway and there’s no point in helping it along).
On the other hand, I flat out refuse to see any more gigs at the NEC in Birmingham. The last 4 I went to completely sucked. I can’t imagine a more muddy, confusing mix (and as someone pointed out, if you’re sometimes having difficulty making out which song is being played, you start to wonder whether it’s worth shelling out the big bucks).
Ex sound guy here: One of things of the things I used to do (and never saw any other sound guy do) is get out from behind the desk and have a listen to what the sound was like elsewhere.
And yeah Boo Boo Foo I used to wear earplugs. In latter days we did the sound for raves -where you could wander off while the thing dragged on. Coming back to the venue after a few hours you got to hear the sound levels with fresh ears, 2inch horns can be very loud indeed. Some punters used to stick their heads into the bins (500 Watts each) for added damage.
Some observations:
I did small/medium venues where lots of what you hear is actually coming off the stage. Loud guitars will drown out anything down at the front of the stage. The standard mix for guitar bands was “kick drum and vocals” (maybe the bass player got in there) Everything else was already too loud.
It’s much easier to make electric instruments loud than open-mike vocals.
I won’t make excuses for lame sound systems but some (most?) venues have lousy accoustics (the Birmingham NEC is probably one) big rectangular halls where the sound just bounces around - hopeless.
In a theatre I would’ve thought they’d have complete control of the accoustics so I dunno why a Broadway show should have a crappy mix.
Out door gigs are a breeze, no echoes, much more like mixing in a studio. And unless they’ve got ranks of stacks your PA out-guns the guitarists.