Bumping this once again because I finally got around to making sourdough as opposed to talking about it. Got my starter from a local baker who makes fantastic breads. Picture 1Picture 2. For some reason, I seem to have a gift with baked goods. I never really follow a recipe and improvise everything yet it all seems to turn out pretty damn good.
We ate nearly the entire loaf straight out of the oven for breakfast, just with some butter and sea salt. The crust on it is phenomenal, probably the best I’ve ever had anywhere. And I’ve had sourdough in Paris and San Francisco so thats saying something.
I was inspired to make a starter. It’s been full of ups and downs. For a while it was beautiful…a wonderful bubbling foam. Right now, it’s covered in a thick layer of nasty black hooch. But it’s still really bubbly and I hate to give up.
Even Sven, I’m no expert but nasty black hooch doesn’t sound good.
Annie’s link on Carl’s friends gives good sourdough starter for the cost of a stamp. I got some about 2 weeks ago. current loaf from the bread machine is okay. I’ve got vacation next week, so I’ll do some in the oven. The starter is taking on a pretty nice sour taste and odor. I’ll post again next week with the results.
Anyone out there ever made sourdough bagels? What was the result?
Carl’s starter has been really good. Am running into a problem though. When I make sourdough in the bread machine, the dough always turns really really really elastic and sticky at the end of the mixing cycle. I’ve tried using less liquid, but then the dough is really stiff and doesn’t mix. Add a teaspoon of water at a time to get the right consistency, and then by the end of the cycle it’s back to the elastic/sticky situation.
Use regular white all purpose flour (not bread machine flour)
When I put the dough onto a pizza stone, then I end up with tasty bread that’s about 1 inch thick rather than a loaf. Pretty tasty though, so I know I’m on the right track.
I tried posting this earlier but the board died. Long story short: your overmixing and destroying the gluten. Try using ice water in your dough and shortening the mix times or using bread flour. It won’t rise because the gluten network is what captures the bubbles from the yeast.
Sounds to me like a wet mix rather than destroyed gluten.
Let the “dry dough” knead and you’ll be able to watch it get wet. Hydration of flour is a very interesting thing.
In my kitchen-aid mixer, I knead for no more than 10 minutes total. By hand it’s nearly impossible to overknead bread dough. Even with AP flour.
One of the things I’ve found to work well for getting “rise rather than spread” is to refrigerate the shaped dough overnight (that’s also the “rise” time), and place into the oven still slightly cool (30 min or so out of the fridge before baking). I got this from the e-Gullet course mentioned in post #17. (Awesome tutorial btw… I want that guys oven!!!)
I think it is destroyed gluten. I made up a tiny 1/2 pound loaf yesterday and mixed that sucker in the bread machine for only 10 minutes. Formed a roll, let it rise for about 3 hours (I was running an errand), punched it down, let rise for another 2 hours and baked it. Not quite there but getting close.
Any hints on an easy way to mist the oven to get that killer sourdough crust? Can you put a cast iron pan in the over with some water in it, or do you have to spray the loaf and spray the oven sides repeatedly?
Put a dry baking sheet into the oven (not too thick) and let it heat up. Then, right after you put the bread in, toss a 1/2 cup of water and close the door very quickly. The heat from the pan will instantly flash steam some of the water and the rest will evaporate slowly for the next 15 mintues or so.
Need advice. I’ve got Carl’s starter going for a few months now. I mix up a loaf of sourdough, with just starter, flour, water and salt, only let the bread machine knead it for about 8 minutes and knead by hand for a few minutes. Then it won’t rise or just barely rise. I’ve let the dough sit for 2-3 days on the counter, in the fridge, in a warm yeast rising environment and nada.
My starter won’t foam but it’s definately fermenting. It smells like fermentation, like sourdough. It produces hooch. I feed it and stir it. Sits on the kitchen counter and it’s pretty cold 35-50 degrees.
Is it because I’m experimenting with small batches (just one cup of flour until I get the basic’s right)?
Is it because it’s winter and too cold?
I tried using a tablespoon of honey or a tablespoon of sugar (although that defeats the purpose of sourdough) and it won’t rise.
I’ve taken to cheating and adding some sugar and yeast. Refridgerating for 1-2 days and it pretty well keeps the shape in the oven. Texture is fine. Taste is good but not tangy enough sourdough. I put about a cup of water in a cast iron skillet in the oven and use a pizza stone, so get good crust action.
Why won’t my dough rise just using the starter? Any ideas? I’ll see if warmer weather makes a difference in a couple of months.
My advice is do not use any yeast in your starter. I’ve always found that bread yeast overpowers any sourdough yeasts and the end result is only vaguely, if at all, sour tasting.
The easiest way to get your starter started is to use rye flour. I use about 1/2 cup of rye, 1/2 cup lukewarm water to make a nice slurry, and then just let it sit. The next day or two days later, dump half of it out put in another 1/2 cup rye and 1/2 cup lukewarm water, let it sit, and so on. It takes me anywhere up to 7 days until I get the desired results and foaminess, so be patient.
Also, you’re not really capturing wild yeasts in the air so much as using the yeasts already present in the milled grain. Another technique that works well is to help along the fermentation with a bit of sugar or the juice from organic raisins that have been soaked in water and pressed out.
Your starter is probably dead if it’s not foaming. What do you mean it’s producing hooch? Flour and water will naturally seperate out. Hooch means the water is sour. You might have to get some new starter.
dabgummit, I think you’re right that somehow I killed Carl’s yeast. I added a teaspoon of sugar and a few tablespoons of starter and after a few hours in a warm spot, no sign of yeasty activity.
At least I kept half of the starter I got and can try to fire that up. Man, I dunno how that happened. It’s hard to kill yeast. Yeast will go dormant but hard to kill unless the temp is too high, and it’s frickin cold where I’m at and the kitchen doesn’t warm up. Unless Chinawife, who doesn’t like my baking hobby, killed off my yeast.
I’ll give it until morning but not holding out hope that my starter is anything but dead. RIP
It’s possible, but be patient. My starters have taken anywhere up to a week to really get going, particularly if the kitchen is cold. 35-50 is definitely on the side of cold when it comes to yeast.
I use the retard overnight method as well. I make the dough early afternoon on Saturday. After the first rise, I divide and shape into round boules, put them in covered baskets and then into the fridge.
The cool temperature slows down the yeast activity, but the bacterial activity is still proceeding (adding to the nice tang). Sunday morning, I preheat the oven to 500, take the loaves out while the oven is preheating. I slash the loaves, use a pizza peel with corn meal to transfer them to my baking stone, add hot water to an old cast iron skillet on the bottom of the oven, close the oven door and reduce the temp to 450.
ding ding ding, we have a winner. It’s warmed up the past few days and my starter is reacting like in the tutorial posted earlier in this thread. Heck, I think I even know what a starter sponge is now.
This time around, my little test loaf rose up all by it’s lonesome (with no added sugars or yeast). did the beagledave bake method. Pretty decent crust all around. Decent sourdough taste comes out loud and clear.
I’ll start making bigger batches and fine tuning. But for now, I think y’all (and Carl) got me in the ballpark. Thanks!
Annie in post 2 on this thread has a link to free sourdough starter. It’s actually quite a cool site/concept. Some guy named Carl had sourdough starter from his grandmother in Oregon pioneer days. He would give out the starter free, and now that he has passed on, Friends of Carl do the same thing. Self addressed stamped envelope is all you need.
Proximity to so much sourdough has fogged my mind. Fogged mind is a specialty of SF. Well, fog anyway. I thought being here I might pick up a starter, I’ll look in the airport as I leave on Monday.
I saw the Carl’s link but thought it might be interesting to compare and contrast two starters.
