I came across this photo of a Spanish Legionnaire seemingly on parade in a dress uniform, with what appears to be a hand-saw strapped to his back. What is the significance of this? Is it some kind of ceremonial item representing an Engineering battalion or something?
Does any other military do this?
He was supposed to be carrying a hawk, but there was a north-northwestern wind, and he got confused.
You are close, he is a Pioneer legionnaire
In European armies, Engineers are something of an elite. In parades, they wear aprons and white leather gloves. (All Freemasons, call your office!) In the French Foreign Legion (and some other European units), the Sergeant Major marches as the last man in formation, carrying an axe on his shoulder as if it were a rifle.
The American militaries never picked up on this stuff, so it looks odd to our eyes.
Paul in Saudi writes:
> The American militaries never picked up on this stuff, so it looks odd to our eyes.
Are you claiming that engineering was never that important in the American military? That’s not true. West Point was mostly an engineering school in the nineteenth century. Some engineering courses are still required of all students:
No, I think he is saying the U.S. military never got into the ceremonial uniforms and trappings for the engineers, is all.
Paul in Saudi, is that what you’re saying?
(Note: I’d like a reply from Paul in Saudi himself, not someone else’s guess at what he was saying.)
I spoke only of uniforms. Ours are remarkably plain. In fact I cannot think (aside from bandsmen) I cannot think of a single example of a nifty parade uniform in the US service.
Oh wait, some MP stuff, white hats and all that.
Not a parade uniform.
You’re right – they were crazy enough to wear all that crap into actual battle!
A much more recent example than the Zoaves.
I leave the identification up to the reader, if he’s not a crook.
Easy.
When Nixon went on a European tour, he was impressed by the uniforms of the presidential guards. So he put the USSS (uniformed division) into this outfit. People giggled at them. To this day, people write the USSS asking if they can have the uniforms for the local marching band.
If I’m not mistaken, they all carry an axe during parades. And it’s the entire unit that marches last in parades (I don’t know if the Sergeant major walks last). Plus, a beard is mandatory, and it’s generally a long beard. You can see them on the third picture of this page. They also never split ranks (some going to the left and others to the right) during a parade, contrarily to other units.
However, I don’t think engineers are particularly considered as elite in France. These are peculiarities of the engineers of the foreign legion only. Actually, I was convinced in was the other way around : that engineers were considered elite in the USA (this idea having been picked up from wargames).
Do other militaries wear hats like that with a chin strap? I know I’ve seen people wearing hats like the one in the OP’s photo, but minus the tassel and chin-strap (which, in my opinion, make it look a little bit ridiculous).
Now I could be wrong on this, but I thought it was a seperate bunch of combat engineers (not of the legion) that carried axes and sported big beards. I thought the legion guys just carried FAMAS’s last time I was at the parade. But the guys in your pic do have the white Kepi. That’s only the legion right?
As for engineers being elite in France, isn’t the best university in France a military engineering school or at least start as that? (Polytecnique (sp?))
Don’t forget the wonderful axe-attack by a legendary French * génie* at Waterloo. You can’t make stuff like this up. French engineer have always been right up there. (Perhaps it is British Sergeants Major who march with the chromed axe?)
When I was in the Canadian Army, I stood honour guard for an officer’s mess in pioneering dress: My dress greens, covered by a black leather apron, and with a ceremonial axe that was black handled with a chromed head; the other soldier had a ceremonial billhook. There was a special salute to be done with the axe that I don’t recall now. My regiment wasn’t then, but in the past had been, considered a ‘pioneer’ regiment, which I was given to understand was a cross between an engineering regiment and an advance unit–sort of like engineers who precede the main advance behind the scouts to break ground and mark paths as necessary. I’m pretty sure the entire concept is ceremonial now.
Yep, that’s only the legion. On this video you can see them appearing around 2:40, and going forward to about 3:10 you can see the regular legionnaires with a FAMAS coming behind.
(And apparently, I was wrong : they walk first, not last, and the sergeant-major is the first, not last)
Polytechnique is the best Engineering school (Only open to engineers and not an university. It’s one of those specialized “grandes ecoles”, peculiar to France, that are ranked significantly above any French university). It indeed was originally intended to train military engineers, and actually the students still technically belong to the army (they get two months of military training or something like that, have an uniform and carry a sword. And like the foreign legion, they’re always present at the Bastille day parade). However, the wide majority of students never join the army but rather work as civil engineers. You can see them in uniform on this page.
They also have a quaint yearly ball in uniform at the opera of Paris. Here’s a video where you can see them dancing 19th century-style.
There’s also another peculiar French engineer corps : Paris’ firemen, originally military sappers/engineers, and who also still technically belong to the army, contrarily to all other firemen in France (except for the city of Marseilles, where they technically belong to the navy). Those too are traditionally always present during Bastille day parade.
Still doesn’t have much relevance to the engineer corps being considered elite in the army.
The foreign legion’s engineers are also “pioneers”. That indeed might explain this “elite unit” concept, that might have been true at some point in the past (I wasn’t aware of that).
