I’ve been learning Spanish this year and last, and I have a small question about a specific verb tense, which in English would call for would.
Here’s an example: “José told me yesterday that he would be leaving for LA next week.”
In this sentence, we have two time periods referenced. The time at which José told me something, and the time – in the future from the point of reference of the telling – at which he will be leaving.
In English, we could rewrite that above sentence in a couple of ways, both of which suggest to me how to put them into Spanish:
José told me yesterday that he was going to leave next week. José me dijo que iba a salir la próxima semana.
and also
José told me that he was leaving next week. José me dijo que salía la próxima semana.
Now, I suspect that I want to use the imperfect for the verb in this sentence and others like it. Is that correct?
I believe that you want the conditional tense, which functions as a sort of “future past” among other uses, and is normally formed by adding -ía to the infinitive.
The proper way to render the sentence would be: José me dijo que saliría la próxima semana. – Except that I’m fairly sure that a preposition is required to introduce la próxima semana, but I don’t recall what’s appropriately used.
Clair is correct – I’d forgotten that salir has an irregular conditional.
BTW: “Would” may have two distinct functions in English:
“All through his youth, he would watch her from afar.” Here the verb is describing continuing past action, and calls for the imperfect.
“He said that he would leave next week.” This is a past-tense indirect report of the statement “I will leave next week” attributed to “He” – and therefore calls for the conditional, in its role as “future past.” (It also has functions relative to the subjunctive mood, which is something I will walk quickly away from trying to explain.)
Thanks to both of you for your quick replies! I asked a customer of mine who speaks no English – but is taking English classes – which part of English was the hardest for her, and she said the verbs. I said to her ¡Me parece lo mismo en español!, because it does. The grammar of the two languages is surprisingly similar, and only the verb tenses and moods seem to be difficult for those learning.
And Poly, I know about all the craziness surrounding the subjunctive, and you are wise to have avoided it. I was certain of the translation of “would” being the imperfect in the first of your examples. I am not looking forward to learning the subjunctive (starting next week! :eek: ) in Spanish.
Starting next week, but continuing until the end of time. This being my - what? - ninth year studying Spanish, I still run into situations where I’m not sure whether to use the subjunctive or indicative.
You trying to scare me off? 9 years?! See, English verbs are so easy: same form for the infinitives, all present tenses except 3rd person singular, and the present subjunctive (except for “to be”), one form for the conditional – which is the same as the past tense, except for 1st and 3rd person singular “to be” – past tense that uses the same form for all persons, and a future tense that works the same.
However, I think what my customer means when she says that the English verbs are difficult is this: She’s used to so much information being conveyed by the conjugation of the verb that she has a difficult time interpreting a sentence when the verbs all look the same and don’t even have a normal, standardized ending.
Wish me luck on this subjunctive business (which I’m getting, somewhat – “Quiero que te vayas ahora porque siempre me molestas”, “¡No lo toque! ¡No es suyo!”, “Hay que el Cielo y tú madre cuiden de ti, pero me voy.” “No creo que seas muy inteligente.” I’ve been reading ahead.), and get ready for some more questions.
Agreed. And furthermore, the intricasies of the phrasal verbs have to be a frustration. To break in (to the music business), to break out (of jail), to break up (with your longtime SO), to break down (on the side of the road). To get up (in the morning), to get down (with the funk) - illogical and I bet it’s dizzying for non-native speakers.
("¡No es suyo!" does not have a subjunctive verb in it, dear.)
I know. “¡No lo toque! ¡No es suyo!” was enclosed in one set of quotes, cause it goes together. “Don’t touch it! It’s not yours!”
I know that the verb + preposition meanings must be incredibly confusing for non-natives. Think of all the things “get” can mean, depending in the trailing preposition. Get with, get next to, get out, get in, get on, get on with, get up, get down, get near, get around, get out, get away, plus get on its own meaning receive, understand, or become.
But, you have to admit that it is laughably easy to conjugate these verbs once you learn their meanings.
There’s a McCormick Mayonaise billboard on my way home from work (I’m in Mexico currently) that reads something like this: “Queremous tú probar.” It took me a while to understand it, but when I realized there was a picture of Uncle Sam (our [as in the USA] Uncle Sam) on the billboard and that it was being marketed as an American company product, well, now I smile whenever I see it.
So, seriously, if you kind of mumble when you say the subjunctive, no one knows you didn’t say it correctly. And listening to the native speakers here, there’s a lot of words they don’t say “correctly,” either. If the problem is the actual use of the subjunctive, well, it’s like the rest of the Spanish language – there’s an analogue in English that makes it really easy. In this case, it’s stilted, “Little Woman”-style English that we don’t tend to use that often any more: I want that you go to the store to rob it. You want that I be good? She would hope that they be present on time.
Sure, but that’s going to be the first thing the OP is going to get into, and it’s really easy as long as you don’t concentrate on the e’s and a’s. Yeah, not a good way to do academic learning, but okay for speaking, and absolutely no issue at all for reading or hearing!
I just did a quick test Spanish subjunctive at about.com to see if I was really stupid in it, and other than my bad orthography, I did perfectly well.
I guess what Excalibre means is that we also have analogues in English for emotive action, too, which is really all “indirect commands” are if you think about it. It mostly comes down to reality vs what may not be real. And because I don’t know all of the proper a’s vs e’s, no one really knows if I’m talking in the subjunctive.
In the real world, it’s a dying mood in Spanish as in English.
What in the world makes you say that? There are certain Spanish dialects, mostly in the U.S., where the subjunctive is disappearing due to influence from English on bilinguals. But the subjunctive is alive and well in most of the Spanish-speaking world. I’m not so good on my Mexican geography; perhaps you’re in a border region where there’s a good deal of southwestern U.S. influence, but even then I’d expect you to be hearing plenty of subjunctive. I’ve never been to Mexico, but I’ve been to Spain a couple times and I heard plenty of subjunctive. I’m currently studying sociolinguistics; I might ask my professor if she has any thoughts on the subject. But frankly, I think you’re off-base here
Actually, you both are probably right – talking to ordinary, middle-class-and-up folks, I don’t really notice anything amiss. But on TV reading the subtitles is when I see a lot of things that I think should be subjunctive but aren’t. Probably a result of almost literal translation from the English without the subjunctive.
One thing that we need to watch out for, though, is that people that watch a lot of TV could end up talking like the TV, and bam!; no more subjunctive.
And finally, when I refer to the subjunctive is missing, I mean the more subtle (to an English speaker) cases; not the obvious, everyday sort of cases, like the examples I earlier posted. I never see those in error (except the McCormick Mayo billboard).
Oh, usually for native speakers its Guanajuato or Colima, although now I’m in Sonora. I think that even here in Sonora it’s not too “bordery” – this place is nice and normal, and not at all like Cd. Juarez, Nuevo Laredo, and other border cities I’ve been to (generally if people think Mexico=border town then they have a really bad impression of Mexico, and it’s not just for the way they talk!).
What in the world makes you say that? There are certain Spanish dialects, mostly in the U.S., where the subjunctive is disappearing due to influence from English on bilinguals. But the subjunctive is alive and well in most of the Spanish-speaking world. I’m not so good on my Mexican geography; perhaps you’re in a border region where there’s a good deal of southwestern U.S. influence, but even then I’d expect you to be hearing plenty of subjunctive. I’ve never been to Mexico, but I’ve been to Spain a couple times and I heard plenty of subjunctive. I’m currently studying sociolinguistics; I might ask my professor if she has any thoughts on the subject. But frankly, I think you’re off-base here