[QUOTE=Lobelia Overhill]
Amen…
<mutters darkly>people who read the fecking Bible shouldn’t be allowed to have kids</mutters darkly>
[/QUOTE]
No. People who read the Bible - or follow any sort of ideology - and who don’t have enough sense to truly understand it are the ones to worry about.
I want to do this too, guys. But uh…GQ and all. you know.
Now if a Mod were to come in here and get all irate on this “politics in GQ” mumbojumbo and banish this thread to The Pit, well, it could turn into a veritable roil. But what are the odds of that happening?
[QUOTE=Lissa]
Paddlings were dispensed for incredibly minor infractions. I was once ordered to be paddled by the principal because I had walked up to a jukebox in a pizza resturant. (Didn’t play anything, but I looked at the song titles and that was bad enough. I wasn’t paddled, though. My mom put a stop to it.) Things which wouldn’t even merit a detention in a normal school were treated as a despicable outrage.
[/QUOTE]
How did that work? First of all, how was it any business of theirs what you did at a pizza joint? I’m assuming this was not during school hours.
Second of all, how would they have reacted if you’d gone into a record store?
[QUOTE=bump]
How did that work? First of all, how was it any business of theirs what you did at a pizza joint? I’m assuming this was not during school hours.
Second of all, how would they have reacted if you’d gone into a record store?
[/QUOTE]
It was during school hours-- we stopped to get food after a field trip. (To a revival meeting. Woo hoo!)
Secondly, they did punish you if you were caught doing forbidden activities after school. One boy was expelled because he was seen by a teacher wearing a Metallica t-shirt at the mall. The principal once called my mother to report that she caught me sitting in my car after school listening to the radio while I was waiting for a friend. (I got detention for that, but because I had quickly turned the dial when I saw her coming, she couldn’t prove I was listening to “the Rock and Roll.”)
I was once over at the principal’s house. Her phone rang constantly with parents calling to rat on other people’s kids. “I saw Julie at the park and she was smoking!” or “My daughter says that Sara Miller went to a party and she was dancing!” Occasionally, they had a parents’ meeting. I once listened in. Parents were springing out of their chairs to reveal the misdeeds of others’ children.
The “logic” behind this was that we supposedly represented the school everywhere we went, and if we had done something improper, it reflected badly on the school and more importantly, on Jesus.
They blew minor infractions completely out of proportion. This following tale happened to my friend, whom I’ll call April.
April was goofing off one day and threw an eraser at the back of a boy’s head. Unfortunately, it hit pretty hard and the boy yelped. The teacher saw and demanded to know who had thrown it. April told me later that she didn’t want to confess because she knew she’d get detention and she had something to do that evening. So she kept quiet.
The teacher demanded again to know who had thrown it. When no one 'fessed up, she announced that no one would get recess, and everyone would have to eat lunch at heir desks.
The next day, she demanded in chapel to know who had thrown the eraser. April was sort of a coward about it and decided that she wasn’t going to confess now, especially in front of the whole school. The teacher declared no recess again, and everyone would have to eat at their desks. This went on for three more days.
On the fifth day, which was a Friday, the kids came in to find an easel set up in the center of the classroom. At the top was written: “IN JESUS’S NAME, I DID NOT THROW THE ERASER.” The teacher handed them a red marker one by one and intoned in a dark voice that the red marker symbolized Jesus’s blood. April signed with everyone else, figuring in for a penny, in for a pound. The teacher went batshit when everyone’s name was on the easel, talking about blasphemy and burning in hell for hours on end. April told me that she was more scared of what would happen if she confessed than she was of Jesus’s vengance.
The following Monday, the teacher had everyone place their heads on their desks and said that she just wanted a confession. Whoever did it should raise their hand and no one would ever know. There would be no further punishment. April gave in, and silently raised her hand. Satistfied, the teacher told everyone to go back to their work.
About half an hour later, another teacher came in and asked if the culprit had been uncovered. “Yeah,” said the teacher. “It was April!”
And then what? What was April’s punishment?
Oh, sorry, I missed the line about “no further punishment”
[QUOTE=Gary T]
No. People who read the Bible - or follow any sort of ideology - and who don’t have enough sense to truly understand it are the ones to worry about.
[/QUOTE]
I’d go with Ephesians 6:4 Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.
[QUOTE=Peter Morris]
Oh, sorry, I missed the line about “no further punishment”
[/QUOTE]
Well, considering the fact that she lied about not telling anyone, it wouldn’t have surprised me if she had punished April. Apparently, she must have felt that making that announcement to the other teacher in front of the whole class would ensure punishment enough from April’s peers. (She didn’t know us very well.)
The advice could be taken as good advice if you consider the rod metaphorical, could it not? Not an actual rod to hit someone with, but simply guidance and discipline, as opposed to doing nothing?
[QUOTE=Peter Morris]
Oh, sorry, I missed the line about “no further punishment”
[/QUOTE]
I think a psychotic person like this “Teacher” would not stand by her word.
Jeez, an ERASER toss causes this kind of reaction in a person? She should be a prison guard instead of a teacher!
Lissa, sounds like those teachers would be better off taking courses from some of the nuns who taught me. My first grade teacher, Sr. Frances Ramona (god rest her soul!), only had to look at you and shake her head sadly, and you’d instantly feel like you were the biggest jackass in the world. Not because you did something wrong so much but because you Let Sister Frances Down.
[QUOTE=Guinastasia]
Lissa, sounds like those teachers would be better off taking courses from some of the nuns who taught me. My first grade teacher, Sr. Frances Ramona (god rest her soul!), only had to look at you and shake her head sadly, and you’d instantly feel like you were the biggest jackass in the world. Not because you did something wrong so much but because you Let Sister Frances Down.
[/QUOTE]
My grandmother had that amazing talent. I would rather she had beaten me than give me that sad, disappointed look.
My mother, on the other hand, had the Evil Eye. Swear to God, that look could make a charging skid to a halt and back away whimpering. I never found out what would happen if I persisted in my behavior after getting the Evil Eye: I was too terrified to find out.
She employed it on the principal after the Jukebox Incident. The principal called her in and insisted she was going to paddle me. Mom unleashed the Eye and said in an icy tone, “I don’t think so.” The principal’s righteous indignation crumbled like tissue paper and she was left stammering that if Mom wouldn’t let the principal paddle me, Mom had to do it. So, Mom took me out for some lunch and told me to consider myself paddled. 
[QUOTE=Lissa]
My mother, on the other hand, had the Evil Eye. Swear to God, that look could make a charging skid to a halt and back away whimpering. I never found out what would happen if I persisted in my behavior after getting the Evil Eye: I was too terrified to find out.
[/QUOTE]
Aw, man, I hope my kids never test me on that one. I have no idea what I’d do if they ever ignored The Look[sup]TM[/sup].
[QUOTE=Lissa]
Swear to God, that look could make a charging skid to a halt and back away whimpering.
[/QUOTE]
:smack: That was supposed to say “make a charging lion skid to a halt . . .”
Where did my lion go?
[QUOTE=Lissa]
Where did my lion go?
[/QUOTE]
It lay down with the lamb.
** Hal Briston** is jealous.
[QUOTE=Testy]
Well that’s news. I had always thought it was a Biblical injunction against artificial insemination.
[/QUOTE]
No, that would be “Spare the turkey baster and spoil the child.” Lacking turkeys and rubber bulbs in ancient Palestine this one went over everybody’s head. God had to come back and say, “It’ll make more sense in 3000 years.”
[QUOTE=Guinastasia]
The advice could be taken as good advice if you consider the rod metaphorical, could it not? Not an actual rod to hit someone with, but simply guidance and discipline, as opposed to doing nothing?
[/QUOTE]
I’m not really sure what a lot of the people in this thread are trying to imply. (I’m not trying to pick a fight here, I just want to understand the point of view)
a) Are you saying it is not ok to punish kids through battery because they are kids and are physically weaker and the society restricts their rights?
b) Are you saying is it not ok to punish kids through battery because that is never the right thing to do to any person of any age?
I mean, I am absolutely outraged at Lissa’s story but not because children were being hit but because it was organized, systematic and institutional battery. On the other hand I firmly believe parents and children should have a close enough relationship where they can agree whether physical violence is an appropriate response or not for that family. I have close friends who I smack if they say or do something stupid, and who smack me if I do the same and that in no way is detrimental to the relationship. I have close friends I wouldn’t dare even look at disapprovingly. It’s all relative.
Although I am not Christian, I have read the bible. Proverbs 23:13 might be extended as a metaphor, but also clearly refers to the actual physical beating of a child. I do not remember anything in the bible about telling kids not to fight back and hit their parents whenever appropriate, however (Correct me if I’m wrong here). I remember obeying your parents, honoring them, and definitely not killing them or injuring them, but smacking your parents, or friends, or whoever is not really all that regulated in the bible, is it?
Inflicting pain without injury is a contextual act, and while it can easily be used as an act of abuse or terror, it can just as easily be used as a communication aid depending on the mutual understanding between parties. Having children understand that is crucial, and while it is ok to abstain from violence entirely and to teach your children to do the same, it is only fair for them to understand that not everybody feels this way, and those who disagree can and will use violence against them.