Thanks for your replies everyone. It is helping to give me a bit of perspective, and it sounds like my girlfriend especially wants me there with her at the moment so maybe I can just go in with the mentality that even if it sucks for me I’m doing something for her.
I used to play a game online with a lot of foreigners. At one point I noticed two people from the same country (I think it was Sweden) chatting to each other in an IRC channel (like a chatroom) in English. No one else was apparently taking part in the conversation but there were people in the channel who might have looked in and said something. I asked why they don’t speak Swedish to each other and they said it’s just politeness and they didn’t seem to have even considered that they might not speak English there. Since then I always thought that made sense, but I can understand a different perspective.
If they’re directly talking to each other and it’s an “eavesdropping is rude” kind of situation I don’t mind, of course. But apparently we’re going to be cooking, playing games, going out etc. together as a four, and it sounds like there will only be English spoken when I’m being specifically addressed. The rest of the time presumably the other three will be speaking in French.
At the risk of turning this thread into even more of a soap opera, I talked to my girlfriend about it. As predicted she was annoyed that I even had any doubts that she would behave perfectly
Anyway, I think I’m going to just bite the bullet and do it.
I’ve been in a similar scenario to the OP in Germany. I’ve frig all German really but I could follow conversations all right typically, given that I was fully immersed in the context. I found I was even able to have ok conversations once I didn’t try to be too complex. Talking about food, music, drink, weather all help oil the gears of socialising with people who you don’t share a common language with.
OP Let us know how the trip goes, I can’t imagine anything more boring than a camping trip where everyone is only speaking French and making no effort to communicate with me, good luck!
The family chastises him for speaking so much tagalog around me, it is not him not wanting to treat me like a baby it’s that I’m in his house and he’s lazy. His english is very good and when I was a guest the first few times he always spoke english and peppered his speach with simple filipino phrases but this last trip I really stopped even paying attention to him because he was speaking a deep type of tagalog at full speed and I got bored not understanding so much of it. Filipinos can be quite rude from my American perspective when dealing with foreigners. I love my future-in laws and they put up with a lot of my American-ness as well so I can’t complain overall.
I know they are not talking about me in any negative way to my face, my only complaint about it is that it is utterly boring as hell… I also find it highly ironic that my future parent-in-laws complain when their cousins show up from the province and speak provincial languages they don’t understand when they could just as easily speak tagalog, and then go ahead and speak tagalog in front of me. :rolleyes:
My wife is Taiwanese but doesn’t speak much English so we talk in Japanese, which most of her friends don’t speak. Even for the ones who do, she just switches off into Chinese and leaves me out of it. Irritating, but this is one flaw which doesn’t look like she’ll change.
Anyway, I handle it by limiting the time spent with her family and friends, especially with group chats. I’ve also taken books and done reading while they are talking. Normally, that would be considered rude, but it’s actually easier than being bored with conversations which don’t really concern me, so I don’t mind.
A week is a long time, so put a schedule together on how much time she spends in French, how much in English and how much you two have alone.
I wouldn’t worry about them talking about you. Unless the guy is an ass, he shouldn’t be putting you down in front of you.
I’m in the same situation every time I visit my husband’s family in India. Those at his grandmother’s house (his aunt, uncle, cousin, grandmother, all the servants (but they don’t talk to us much anyway)) speak Gujurati. Just by being there, I can sometimes get the context of what they’re saying, but if they make a joke I’m usually reduced to smiling and nodding.
Yeah, it’s awkward, but at the same time, I just try to relax and go with the flow. They don’t speak English very comfortably and the last thing I want to do is make my hosts feel uncomfortable in their own home. My husband or one of his relatives sometimes takes the time to explain to me what they’re talking about, but not always. And that’s ok.
If your girlfriend is here to stay (i.e., someone you really want to spend years with), it’d probably be best if you could try learning the language if you’re going to be traveling to her home town, but if for some reason you don’t have the time, you’ll have to get used to smiling and nodding a lot. Keep in mind, too, that because her brother lives in France, even if English was spoken occasionally in the home, he might simply not feel comfortable speaking in English. Much of my husband’s family feels rusty in English because the only time they ever speak it is when I come. Even though they all spoke it in the home at some point, it’s not second nature to them. I’m the same way with Spanish - I used to live in South America, but there’s no way I’d feel comfortable diving into an extended, complex conversation with a native speaker.
When I’m linguistically outnumbered, I generally consider it my job to sit by pleasantly and facilitate people having a good time. When I visit my Portuguese-speaking boyfriend’s family, I’m fine sitting back and daydreaming while they catch up. I’m pretty good at reading tone and body language, so if someone can throw me the general topic of conversation now and then, I can somewhat keep up and contribute a little bit. Smiles and laughter go a long ways in any language, and there are a lot of activities you can do that don’t require much shared language- cooking together, sports, shopping, etc. In any case, it’s really important for him to be able to spend quality time with his family, and I’m capable of entertaining myself enough so that he can do that. At some point I’ll need to learn Portuguese, but until then we’ve got enough good-humor and patience to make it work.
His family does speak some English, but I know that speaking a second language over an extended period can be exhausting, and can make people feel really self-conscious. Even when you are good at it, it still drains you. I’d rather my boyfriend’s family be happy and relaxed around me, even if I’m not perfectly entertained all of the time. I don’t want to make my boyfriend to feel like he needs to focus entirely on me or for them to feel like the gathering needs to be planned around me. I’d rather feel like an organic part of the family.
Honestly it seems to me like your problem her is not with language, but with your girlfriend herself. You don’t seem particularly interested in making a good-faith effort to have a good time with her family, and are jumping directly into feeling put-out by something that hasn’t even happened yet. That points to deeper problems.
I do know a little French and am learning more. I actually really like the language, and languages in general, but I’m a student and there’s only so much learning I can force my brain to do at a time.
I will try to take that attitude.
I get where you’re coming from, but you don’t know the whole story. I’m actually feeling tired of making an effort and not feeling like she’s making any. I also do have reasons to suspect that she’s not going to do much to help me feel comfortable, but yeah it’s only fair to give it a chance. But I really didn’t want to go, for a lot of reasons, so this thread is part me trying to make that effort - not me be unwilling to make any.
I’ve had this experience my whole life. My parents’ native language is Hungarian, and whenever they get together with people of their generation and older, they commonly fall into speaking that language. I did not grow up speaking Hungarian, except for a very few words and phrases. (It’s a long story how that happened; many of my cousins can speak Hungarian, but my sister and I can’t.)
So from my earliest childhood memories there are times when there’d be conversations going on around me in a language I didn’t understand. I got used to it.
I agree with this; I have no qualms with reading or playing Minesweeper while everyone else is discussing a topic that doesn’t involve me in a language I don’t know.
Yeah, for me, not a big deal. Despite my username, I’m not Hungarian (Polish is my second, or really first, language). When I lived there, it was not unusual for conversations to break out into Hungarian amongst the locals, and it never occurred to me to think anything of it. Trust me, if they think you have some understanding of the language, they almost never talk about you right in front of you.
Personally, I wouldn’t think anything of it. I’m used to being in situations where I don’t completely understand the language being spoken, and I just smile, drink and eat what’s put in front of me, and not worry about being included in the conversation. If they want to include me, they will. It’s not something I personally care about.
I’m around bilingual people all the time. I just ask, in english, when I’m curious about what they’re saying. It’s a given that I, and the OP, don’t speak the language, and they know it, so it’s not weird to ask. In fact, I’d suggest the OP get used to asking. Lots No point in making yourself more uncomfortable than the people around you ever could, ya know?
I think the relaxing and letting go of the idea that you have to know everything which is going on is important.
I used to not be able to relax when my wife was talking in Chinese with others, but now I don’t.
For the OP, I think it’s important the your girlfriend recognize that you are making a sacrifice. This doesn’t mean that you get to be all pissy if she doesn’t but you should be able to plan activities which are centered around you as well. Likewise, if the others can speak some English, then part of the time (1/4 or so) should be in English to make you part of the group. Otherwise, let her go and you stay home. You aren’t something which can be taken out of the closest, played with and put away.
More planning is essential. What types of activities can be done which don’t require that much conversation? Can you go taking photos? Play miniature golf? Other sports?
The important thing is that you both recognize that you each have your own needs to be met, and how to balance them. Solve that and you’ll be a long ways to a good mutual relationship.
I think this is a good opportunity to be a good sport and try to impress the brother. This is also a test for the girlfriend. If she sees you sitting there trying to participate and being ran roughshod but doesn’t do anything, she isn’t a nice person. But if she tries to include you, you know she at least has empathy.
It may be that even though your girlfriend’s folks seem to be comfortable with both languages, they aren’t equally comfortable. One of them is a tight pair of dress shoes and the other is a pair of well-worn slippers. So at first, they may be conscientious enough to speak English in front of you, but once things mellow out, they will slip on the more comfortable French. I experienced this all the time when I worked in Miami and all of my coworkers spoke Spanish. Sometimes it WAS annoying, but compassion goes two ways. I knew they weren’t doing it to be rude. It would have been crazy for me to demand they include me in every joke or side conversation.
I had a friend in college from Brazil. I remember one of her Brazilian friends was over one day…the friend-of-the-friend was talking in Portuguese, and my friend was answering in English. After the friend-of-the-friend left, I asked why the different languages. My friend said it was because I was there, and she didn’t want to be rude to me. Take that for what it’s worth.
it seems to me that you are about to have an extremely helpful and educational language experience called immersion. If you stay with her, you are likely going to want to learn French, and this is an opportunity that people who are trying to learn a language would probably pay for. If you’re not going to stay with her, you will pick up at least a little bit of knowledge for knowledge’s sake. Not the worst thing in the world.
I understand the not understanding the conversations part, and how that may be boring/frustrating, but I agree with those who urged you to “go with the flow” and try to relax and realize you do NOT need to know what is being said at all times. I’ve been in similar situations many times and I usually look at it as a learning experience. We just had my French-speaking mother-in-law staying with us -my husband knows both languages and I know a tiny bit of French and she knows more English than I know French. My husband often translated for us. But if we were amongst a bunch of French speakers, I relaxed and let the words flow over me and tried to pick up what I could. If I really needed or wanted to know what was said, I asked my husband (or he told me if he realized I needed to know). His mother did the same when it was mostly English being spoken. One thing I did because I wanted to be able to speak to my mother-in-law directly (after almost 5 years of marriage, we were on the same continent for the first time, so I got to meet her finally) was sit down with my laptop and type English into Google translate, and read the French translation to her. It worked pretty well. I asked my husband to make sure she was OK with my bumbling attempts (rater than annoyed) and she said it was fine. When Google translate failed us and she looked at me quizzically, then I asked my husband for help. There are all sorts of ways around language barriers if you are creative and especially if you give up expectations of how it “should” be. Another cardinal rule of language issues/barriers/learning (which you may already know if you like languages) is that you have to be willing to be laughed at. Mistakes in other languages are often funny. They just are. Here, you may not be trying to speak so much, so I guess it’s more a case of being willing not to be constantly informed.
One more thing. Just hearing the sounds and the words is so good for a person who is learning a language, even if they don’t understand at first. When I was learning Spanish, I started listening to Spanish radio. Generally they talk so fast I couldn’t understand one word out of ten when I started. After two years of listening in the car occasionally and taking one Spanish class per semester-- **two years **-- the words on the radio finally separated. I heard them as WORDS and not one amorphous blob of sounds and the occasional understandable Spanish word. That was a great day! Ultimately, after studying Spanish rather lazily for four years (got a minor in college, took about a class per semester), I moved to Costa Rica and was speaking with ease after a couple of weeks – the miracle of some study + immersion.
Also, if the brother IS talking about you…shrug. That says way more about him than it does about you. At the risk of people throwing tomatoes because it seems like everyone at the Dope hates this phrase, it is what it is. He’s a rude jerk if he does that; that doesn’t change who you are. Who really cares if he talks about you? What are you going to do about it? Be happy you’re not a jerk like he is. That may be easier said than done, but at least that’s the attitude I would aspire to. His words and idiocy only have power if you give them power.
I say, go for it, good luck, bring a book or whatever for when the French gets boring…and learn some new words! Congrats in advance for going out of your comfort zone.
I think you do need to address this at some point. Do you know what she could do that would make you feel comfortable or do you just feel that, in general, she doesn’t care? Also, why don’t you want to go? I get that the brother is probably a big reason, but what are the other ones? I imagine one may be money, but it doesn’t sound like that’s the only barrier.
Anyway, here’s what I’d do: make an effort to listen and smile and nod. Try not to be offended. If you’re not impressed with her family or her behavior, hey, you’re in France! How often are you going to go to France? There are so many wonderful things to see and do in Paris and on the outskirts. Hopefully you’ll get to see the sights.
And if all they want to do is sit inside and chat and you’re totally excluded, there’s absolutely no reason you can’t find a good opening in the conversation and say, “Hey, you know what? I’m going to let you two catch up. Do you mind if I take a walk?” And go see what you can see.
Even though you’re going as a couple, if she has other obligations, there’s no law you have to spend the whole time with her. Maybe find out where you’ll be staying and do some research on your own before you go so you know what’s nearby.
Actually it seems that, for now, I will not be going, although I was planning to. I should be there now, in fact. My girlfriend is actually in France at the moment anyway. Somehow our conversation last night went from us being in a relationship to quite possibly not being in one. At best we’re going to have a break of some kind. We didn’t actually argue or anything but she’s very stressed with other issues at the moment and, for reasons I don’t quite understand, that means she prefers a break/to break up. Maybe part of that is me being unsure about going to France, I’m not sure.
Anyway, she’s hopefully going to come here soon. I’m not sure what kind of relationship we’ll have then, but she needs a break from her family in France and if she needs a friend more than a boyfriend I’ll be that. We’ll have fun either way, but it’s going to damn hard if I have to look but not touch. I suppose I’m hoping that if we have some time together and I can take her mind off the stress she’ll decide she doesn’t want to break up, but who knows?
You admit she is pretty cold and not empathetic to you, and she just broke up with you, I think you should spend some time alone and then be preparing to find someone who cares for your feelings more. Just IMO.
