My girlfriend is French and wants me to spend a week with her, her brother and his girlfriend while her parents are away. They all speak French of course, as well as English. I speak English with a very small amount of French (I could get by living in France but not have social conversations in any way really).
I would feel awkward going to their house and forcing them all to speak English, which I mentioned to her. She said it wouldn’t be like that and her brother especially would not speak much English. Sometimes they’re visited by my girlfriend’s sister’s boyfriend (who doesn’t speak French) and she said they only speak English “when it’s important for him to understand”.
Now that sounds even more awkward to me, especially since I’ve already heard a lot of stories about how her brother seems to dislike a lot of characteristics I have (it’s not personal, he just dislikes things which apply to me) so I’m going to be wondering what they’re saying all the time (which I admit is more my own fault and insecurity).
I wish I were the kind of laid back person who could just go into that situation with a smile but I’m sure it’s going to bother me and I’ll feel uncomfortable a lot of the time. My girlfriend isn’t the type to recognize this and try to minimize it either - I fully expect her to be chatting away in French with little thought for me.
What do you dopers think? What would you do in this situation? To me it seems wrong for me to expect them to speak English but even more wrong to be just left out. Am I wrong to be a bit irritated at the idea that they would only speak English when it’s something for me to understand? Am I just being stupid about this? I wanted to go before, although I was quite apprehensive, but with this new information I feel really put off.
I work in a bilingual office, but with different levels of second-language proficiency. Some of us will gossip, chat about lunch options, etc. in the second language without thought to the less proficient coworkers who’re around, because it’s not important that they understand us. However, we would never talk about them because it’s impossible to gauge whether a person’s knowledge of language includes the word for “annoying” or “keeps making personal phone calls at work,” or whatever. Talking about someone in front of that person is just not done, no matter the language. Obviously we switch to English if we’re discussing work policy, or something that it’s important they understand.
This isn’t an exact mirror of your situation, but I doubt they’ll be discussing anything more than Mr. Jones’ lawn care in French. When talking about your intentions toward their sister/daughter, I’m sure English will be used. And because I’ve been on the other side of that bilingual boyfriend-introducing, calm down. Your insecurity is the barrier, not language. If you want to know what’s going on or you’re feeling left out, just ask!
Yes, you’re right, I very much doubt they’ll be talking about me. I have a real problem with feeling unwelcome though, and every time I ask them to repeat in English or something like that I’m going to feel like I’m being irritating and like I don’t belong there. I do have good reason to expect them to be quite inhospitable. Never deliberately rude, but just somewhat inconsiderate and dismissive of people who are different, so I fully expect them to essentially believe I’m “wrong” for not being able to speak French as well as them and therefore “deserve” to be left out (if that makes sense). In short, my girlfriend can be thoughtless and a bit lacking in empathy, and she seems like the nicest person in that family.
I just spent weeks in the Philippines in a similar situation. I’m not filipino, I can speak very basic tagalog like take a cab and get to tge right place, even understand some jokes, but when the gf’s Dad speaks deep tagalog there’s no way for me to follow. He kind of excuses it as, ‘he’ll have to learn it sometime,’ but since I’m trying hard to study the language but still only understand 20% of what he says, its pretty rude.
I wouldn’t go and no offense but I wouldn’t be with a gf who wouldn’t care if I was excluded the whole time either. You will just be feeling awkward, what’s the point unless you really want to learn French?
I just spent weeks in the Philippines in a similar situation. I’m not filipino, I can speak very basic tagalog like take a cab and get to tge right place, even understand some jokes, but when the gf’s Dad speaks deep tagalog there’s no way for me to follow. He kind of excuses it as, ‘he’ll have to learn it sometime,’ but since I’m trying hard to study the language but still only understand 20% of what he says, its pretty rude.
I wouldn’t go and no offense but I wouldn’t be with a gf who wouldn’t care if I was excluded the whole time either. You will just be feeling awkward, what’s the point unless you really want to learn French?
Yeah, agreed. Is it that she’s just thoughtless in the moment? Would it make a difference to bring this up beforehand, and point out that you’ll feel really out of place if you don’t understand what’s going on? What about your girlfriend’s sister, who has the Anglophone boyfriend? Might she be more sympathetic to your plight?
When my wife is speaking Chinese with her friends or family, I don’t mind as long as she explains what they’re talking about every once in a while. Then again, I’m a pretty mellow guy.
I guess I’m curious what you’d have them do? If they speak English it’s wrong, but if they stay in French it’s wrong and if they try figure out when they should switch between the two languages it’s wrong. So what solution would work for you?
She will care I think, but she just won’t think about it at the time. If I can find some way to point it out to her without annoying her she’ll feel bad, but that’s not going to help much. Sometimes that attitude does make me wonder if I should be with her, so I get what you mean. For now I’m trying to work out whether it’s one of those things you can tolerate because you love them or not.
The sister won’t be there, unfortunately. I was hoping to first visit when she and her boyfriend are there so I’m not the only person being a PITA and if we’re left out at least we’re left out together. It presumably doesn’t bother him too much though.
I certainly will bring it up beforehand, but part of the reason I made this thread is because I’m not sure how much right I’ve even got to say I don’t find the proposed level of hospitality acceptable. The other problem is that even if she completely understands and agrees it will doubtless slip her mind or she won’t notice at the time.
Well I’m asking because I don’t really know. There’s no right answer; at best there is a least wrong one. I’m leaning towards thinking the lesser of two evils would be them speaking English while I’m around. I always thought that was the polite thing to do, especially if it’s for the benefit of a guest. But it’s still asking a lot.
It’s basically possible but hard work to maintain. Presumably they won’t enjoy the practice, though, because I was told that the brother will not be using English much and that they don’t do that for the sister’s boyfriend. Unless they particularly enjoy speaking English with me, of course.
My boyfriend is in a similar situation. My family is Korean and he only speaks very basic Korean, although he can understand the gist of most conversations. My parents and a few of my relatives speak pretty good English, but I’m really the only one who is fluent. When he comes to big family gatherings, I just make sure to sit next to him and keep him from getting too bored. Sometimes I’ll ignore him for a few minutes while I’m chatting with my cousins in Korean, but he doesn’t take it personally, and I usually summarize the conversation for him later. He understands that he can’t expect everyone to speak English the entire time that he’s there, while I do my best to makes sure he doesn’t feel left out of the conversation. It helps that I have an awesome cousin who speaks good English and goes out of his way to make conversation with my boyfriend.
My family would never talk about my boyfriend in Korean when he’s right there in front of them. That would be incredibly rude.
Yes, I made a second account so I could talk more openly about people who would recognize this username. But I managed to make a dumb mistake and use the wrong account to post. The two accounts are merged now.
Further information: it would apparently be “awkward” to not spend almost all our time with the brother and his girlfriend and apparently I can expect English maybe 1/3 of the time we’re with them. Each question I ask in the hope of hearing something encouraging leads to answers that further put me off.
At the moment I really don’t feel like going but it’s going to be hard to explain that, and I don’t want to regret it later if I don’t go. Apart from all the incredibly-not-fun parts I mentioned, it sounds fun. There should be camping, kayaking, swimming, cooking - all things I would enjoy. Maybe I just need to be tipsy most of the time and I’ll be OK…
I would definitely find it frustrating not to understand most of the conversation, and to wonder if they’re talking about me. However, as other posters have pointed out, it very likely wouldn’t be.
Since you presumably do like spending time with your girlfriend, and there are other fun activities on this trip, why not look on it as a chance to improve your French?
I would actually second your suggestion of being tipsy; lowered inhibitions tend to make it easier to speak a second language.
Why do you think your presence would in any way “force” anyone else there to speak English?
Think of it as a learning experience. If your gf and her friends and family treat you poorly and constantly exclude you, then dump her after you get home. Already, you don’t sound terribly committed to her.
I’ve been in this situation a few times: staying with a friend’s family (Spanish once, Chinese once), my own relatives (Italian). The Chinese situation was the worst, since I was 17, didn’t have a single word of Chinese, they had no English, and my friend refused to translate. (This was in New York City.) But I never thought people were being rude for speaking their own language around me. If they’re not talking to me, why does it matter what language they use? Eavesdropping is pretty rude, too.
My advice, for what it’s worth, is not worry about it. They’re not going to be talking about you right in front of your face, in any language. If they want to talk to you, they’ll use English. If they want to talk to each other, they’ll use French and you’ll be left out. But it’s not personal and it’s not inconsiderate, just practical. Just keep a book or a smartphone or something around for the occasional moment when there’s nothing else do to.
Shrug, IME those cultures which consider communication to be mainly the responsibility of the sender also consider that impolite, whereas those which consider it the responsibility of the receiver do not, and may even think that the opposite is what’s impolite: apparently they view it as “treating the foreigner as if he was a baby”.
Mine is of the first type, but I’ve run into quite a few of the second.
My in-laws almost always speak Vietnamese amongst themselves, including talking about me by name, in front of me. It’s boring and excluding, and I dislike being talked about as if I’m a dog, but I’ve learned to grin and bear it. I know they don’t mean any harm. It seems to be the culture. I get my partner to translate bits and pieces when he’s around.
My experiences living in Europe led me to feel that it’s polite to try and include people by using the most common languages, and I found that people switch back and forth quite a bit. Just try to go into it with a positive attitude and not be prickly.
