I heard somewhere that in less than 15 years Spanish will be more widely spoken in the US than English. (Due to influx of South Americans etc…)
Is there any real basis for this? Has any census been performed?
Could Spanish outstrip english to ever become the first language of the country? Would it ever be considered the first language?
(lo siento, no entiendo nada)
The US doesn’t have an official language. English is of course the language in which most government business is transacted, but where appropriate federal and state agencies will make arrangements to publish information or transact business in other languages. English is also, by convention, the language most likely to be used between two US citizens who have different native languages.
But these are all matters of convention; I don’t think there is any law on the subject. In theory there is no reason why, over time, Spanish should not become the predominant language in the US. But it strikes me as unlikely; English is very-well established, and there are far more monoglot English speakers than monoglot Spanish speakers. Unless this changes - and there is little reason why it should - English will continue to be the language used for communication between native English speakers and native Spanish speakers, and for communications addressed to the Anglophone and Hispanophone communities alike.
There is also a trend – although not very well recognized for some reason – for second-generation Latinos to be perfectly bilingual and for those of the third generation to even be quite English-dominant. Very few English-speaking Americans really learn to speak Spanish, but nearly all Spanish-speakers feel (eventually) compelled to learn the language of the majority.
And from a geographic perspective, Spanish is chiefly spoken in certain major cities and in the Southwest U.S. and I wouldn’t expect it to spread to most other areas of the U.S.
Okay, I composed an extensive reply including population data, links to U.S. Census tables, definitions, and 27 8x10 color glossy pictures, and the SDMB server ate it. Foo.
Here’s a much briefer version, let anyone go to www.census.gov and look up the data.
First, the dire prediction cannot possibly be on a fifteen (15) year term. More like FIFTY (50). And that’s only if all other language groups roll over and play dead – and we refuse to learn English. As pointed out, the idea of a community that refuses to learn any English is largely a myth – the descendants may refuse to adopt what they see as a “whitebread anglo” culture, but they DO learn English.
Year 2000 “Hispanic” population in the USA is 12.5%, up from 9% in 1990. Means 13 million more. Some of the increase may be correction from 1990 undercount (politically debatable). This includes such non-Spanish-peakers of “Hispanic” ancestry as Christina Aguilera.
In 1990, 7.5% of the over-5-year-old population “spoke primarily Spanish at home”. However, only slightly less than half of that number “did not speak English well”. Extrapolating to the 2000 general population figures I would say there’s now at least 10% of primary Spanish speakers, but probably no more than 5% of sole-Spanish speakers in the USA.
Thing is, a one-in-eight presence is quite visible (we passed African-Americans in numbers); and if it’s all concentrated in major media markets (SoCal, Miami, Chicago, Texas, the NE corridor) it looks even more so to the self-proclaimed cognoscenti of where the country is headed.
Thanks for the reply,JRDelirious.
I guessed the article I read was, em…, rather off the mark.
Cheers.
I really think that is near impossible. I live in a city with around 40% spanish speakers and I have never met a non-hispanic who knew spanish through non-academic means (Besides a few who lived in latin america for a long time as children). I have also never met a second generation hispanic who did not speak english. I live in a city where almost half of the people speak spanish and maybe 20% speak spanish only and I have never felt the need or pressure to learn spanish. I even know of whites who live in 90% hispanic towns and never learn to speak spanish. Sure it would be helpful but I can do everything i need to in english.
As an innocent Aussie who just has to ask one really cheeky question…
Why is it that every time I see a film featuring Hispanics in East L.A. that the locals always refer to white guys as “Holmes”. What is “Holmes”? How on earth did that come into modern parlance?
Its really no big deal for a child to learn more than one language. Really. I teach ESL to adults. There is a huge number of people who dont speak English as their native language but come to class every day to learn this language. We offer no rewards, no certificates, no degrees, just assistance in langauge acquisition. Many of these people I teach have small children, and virtually every one of the children can speak flawless English as well as their parents native language. The children, if old enough, often help their parents navigate our English speaking society.
I once went to a conference of Montagnard Vietnamese, a group with notorious difficulties learning English (although no lack of desire). There were hundreds and hundreds of people there. Many of them knew me and had been students of mine. I spent some time in the convention hall trying to communicate with people, which was a real struggle. I then went outside for a cigarette. There all the children were playing. They were all of them – without exception – speaking English to one another. It was their language of choice. I was really struck by this. It made me realize how full of sh*t these linguistic Chicken Littles are.
Oops! I misspelled “language”.
By the way, BBF, could it be “Homes” they are saying, like “Homeboy” or “Homie”? This is just a guess.
I think I heard it was originally a derivation of Sherlock Holmes - the quintessential Englishman
Or did I dream that…?
I always assumed Holmes was derived from homeboy, originally being a loose term for someone who lived near or with the speaker.
homeboy > homes > Holmes
A great part of it has to do with the US nativist and isolationist culture.
If they really step back they would see that, eventhough we as Mexicanos are proud of our culture, English is the de-facto language of commerce, politics, economics, academics, and community. If you want to get ahead in this society, English is required and being a bi-lingual is a major plus. Even the most ardent Chicano nationalist knows, at minimum, English and Spanish.
If anyone is curious if Latinos are willing or unwilling to learn English, look at the tv and print media. Watch Univision and Telemundo. Watch the commercials for Ingles Sin Barreras (English Without Barriers). They have these funny soap opera/commercials where they show Jose competing against Juan (who speaks english) for a promotion. Guess who wins the promotion? Another one shows Jose trying to talk to his kids who now speak both languages and a wife getting a head in the job market due to her efforts to speak English. Guess who buys Ingles Sin Barreras. Mind you, this product ain’t cheap. I have seen farm workers buy other similar products for up to $300.00 pop just to learn English!
Another point, English is also promoted in Mexico as the language that needs to be learned in a globalized economy.
I guess point is this, English will remain the language of our nation. What will change is that there will be a greater bilingual majority that speaks Spanish. But afterall, Spanish IS the laguange of our neighbor, Mexico and of a good majority of countries of south of it. Learning Spanish just make goods sense in our internationalized world.
xicanorex
And it’s worth noting too that, if the issues of ‘imperialism’ are pushed aside, Spanish itself is indeed a beautiful language too. Maybe not quite as gorgeously ‘bird like’ as French, but it is beautiful nonetheless. Picasso and Salvador Dali didn’t just materialise out of nothing methinks.
And Manuel de Falla, Francisco Goya, Pedro Calderón de la Barca, Miguel de Cervantes, Gabriel García Márquez, Alberto Ginastera, Carlos Chavez, Frida Kahlo, Pablo Neruda, Gato Barbieri, Pablo Casals, Federico García Lorca, and my favorite of all … Jorge Luís Borges.
Thats easy for you to say. You don’t have a million Californians streaming into your country every year.
Huh… if I correctly translate his handle “xicanorex” as “King Chicano”, then his country would be the U.S. of A. (as that is the only place there are Chicanos)
It is true that historically there has been a strong nativist-isolationist streak at work in American society, stronger at some times, weaker at other times (The “Know-nothings”, “Irish need not apply” and so forth). Maybe that would have been a better way to put it, I can see how the original way of saying it may have sounded as indicting US culture as inherently nativist-isolationist (which is too often heard in the Latino community, as the converse cultural myth to “Hispanics never learn English”). But it is a real phenomenon.
In any case, fears of a “population bomb” effect are yet to be conclusively proved. At least for the short-to-middle term.
I’d heard of something like this before… but it was that in fifty years, people of Hispanic descent would be a majority in the USA, not that Spanish-speakers would be a majority…
Some of you may look upon this with contempt, but I’m about to begin a Spanish class (an extension of Vincennes University, on site at my factory.) When I retire, roughly Oct. 1,2003, I plan to do some volunteer work. According to the current information, many of the hard-up people in this area speak English as badly as I speak Spanish now. (PFB) I hope to be able to help the newcomers adjust to our strange land. Our forefathers and foremothers had it tough, trying to adapt, too.
PLEASE tell me where I can get Ingles Sin Barreras for $300 – I’d very happly pay that. When we called (1) the guy couldn’t speak Engish (well, I guess that’s okay), but more importantly (2) they wanted $2,000 dollars plus $200 for shipping. That’s spelt two-thousand two-hundred dollars just so you don’t think I put in an extra zero there.
This company makes a VERY good point at not telling the price anywhere – never their commercials nor their web site. My wife had to talk to the slimy vendor about 15 minutes before she could even get the price out of him.
FWIW, I did see hands-on the children’s Disney version of this program down in Mexico – it looks like super high quality stuff, and I would get it in a heartbeat if I thought it were only $300 – it’s a BIG set. This kids’ version was still MX$15,000 according to my sister-in-law.
Millions? . . . .well . .I don’t know about that . . .Still, that doesn’t change the fact that immigrants (whether documented or not) in the US do strive to learn English.
As far as “easy for you to say”, I live in McAllen, TX. I am about 10 miles from the friggin’ TX-Mexico border. And I for one, I am glad since w/o the rich Mexican tourist our economy would still be heavily dependent on agriculture.
Nuff said.
XicanoreX