I am getting to the point to say that I feel that the OP may have started this thread to try deal with some issues, perhaps some guilt and the need to justify their decision. May I suggest that public acceptance or agreement of that decision you have made will never satisfy that need, though it may help for a short term fix.
If this is the case one will need to come to accept and be at peace with their past, knowing in their heart that is the decision they made at that time and it is just simply part of their journey, as such not ‘wrong’ nor worthy of condemnation, but just part of being human in a world that is very difficult at times. And in need of people who accept you as you are and that justification is not needed or desired.
Then what are you discussing? It’s like a particular religion prohibits wearing blue, and even though you don’t agree with that religion at all, you think that if you squint at it right, green is basically blue, and therefore they need to deal with the philosophical implications of eating plants.
I mean, you disagree with infanticide, correct? So why was your abortion ok? Because you draw a line between infants and fetuses. Why can you accept the placement of that line in your own beliefs and not see any ethical problem, but when someone else draws the same line between a fetus and a potential future child, you feel they are willfully ignoring the implications of their own beliefs.
False. A statisitical average does not limit the number of children any one woman can have. For most women, the number of children is largely determined by choice; they don’t want more than 2.4 children on average, but they can have 3, 4, 5 or more if they so choose. To suggest that having one child early in life eliminates a child later is not logical. If she chooses, she can have both children. If she chooses not to have 3,4, 5 or more children, is that murder also? Does not compute.
It is really a small step, once you condemn pre-conception birth control, to expand that to likely future births.
Now, I find myself in the weird position to have to drag religion into a debate to defend my position from an (as I see it) attack on my moral position by that same religion.
kanickbird, you are reading that wrong. My position is not that of guilt. Yes, it was a very hard decision and I wish I never had to make it. My position is one of anger. Anger that a choice that felt and feels very real to me, and a responsibility I had to take, between life now and life at a better time, is reduced to a choice against life, or pro life.
Perhaps because they are judging me, by calling me a murderer? I have called them nothing worse then “failing to see an not often named consequence of their stance.” .
I actually do see what you’re saying, Maastricht, and I’ve thought it myself, in some of my more metaphysical moments. So you’re not crazy (or at least, not crazier than me!) But, honestly, it’s one of those thoughts that’s profound until you say it out loud (or type it on a messageboard.) No anti-abortion person I’ve talked to thinks of unconceived babies as people/humans with the right to life, they’re concerned with the conceived (but not yet born) ones.
Parenthood is an intensely personal path, with so many variables, and most people change their minds so many times. I don’t think having an abortion or not is even the biggest “sliding door” that can take you down a different path to different kid-outcomes. What if you’d chosen a different career, or lived in a different state? What if you’d not had that third glass of wine the night you conceived? What if you’d had that fourth glass of wine and fell asleep instead of having sex? (“you” used in the general sense, not the personal one)
If I had aborted when I was 17, would I have gone on to have my daughter at 31? No, because I’d never have been where I was when I was to meet her father (I’d have gone to college in another state and gotten a job who knows where, instead of going to that nightclub with my girlfriends that night). I might have had a daughter when I was 31, but it wouldn’t have been ***this ***daughter.
So yeah, you wouldn’t have had your son if you’d not had an abortion when you were younger. I wouldn’t have had my daughter if I **had **had an abortion when I was younger. It all comes out in the multiverse wash, and it’s too Rube Goldbergian a connection to abortion for even anti-abortion activists to worry about.
OK fair enough, What or who is the object of that anger and is that the appropriate direction for that anger?
From how you state it above it could be anger at society (the people who spout the pro/anti choice stuff), or at the situation (being in a modern society and having to deal with being the one to have to deal with the issue of pregnancy). And I don’t know what your views are on God, but also from the above it could be anger at God for allowing you to deal with such a situation under what would be God’s designed criteria.
My anger is directed at the pro-life crowd who sees me as a murderer, I guess. Is that is appropriate? I think so, that is why I feel it. That is really the same question as asking if it is appropriate for some pro-lifers to feel anger at women who had an abortion, like me.
Now, as for acting on that emotion, that is a whole other thing. But speaking ones mind back and forth, that is what a messageboard (and freedom of speech) is all about.
I also have a some anger at the kind of pro lifer who only can show any respect for a womans decision to have had an abortion if she has a deep emotional regret and guilt over it. I don’t know if that applies to you, kanicbird.
Well, I have thrown the idea out there to discuss, and it seems not many people agree with me, athough lots of good points have been made. That is okay. I still think it was an interesting idea to discuss.
So if the pro-life crowd or movement never existed, no one was accusing you or others who have had a abortion of being a murderer, would this mean your anger would be gone?
I would still be angry at anyone who felt they knew better that me-what I could or should do with my own body, that would mean any part-- including my uterus.
Also, alot of the anti- choicers are themselves feeling guilt for having had an abortion, and just want to bring down women who made correct choices for their own lives and the lives of their families.
Except that your citation says ‘almost before’, which does not mean before - it means almost immediately afterward. I’m not saying that’s a position that makes sense, but it still doesn’t support your case.
That average of 2.4 is smaller than the variance within it. Nobody expects or plans to have 2.4 children - they may have two, six, none, or almost any other number. The average is descriptive, not prescriptive.
I am a huge fan of the comic strip “Peanuts” and Linus sort of addresses this. Linus asks Lucy what if a child is up in heaven waiting to be born and his parents decided that 2 children is enough.
FWIW, I will swim against the tide of opinion and say I have long thought that the sentiment suggested by your OP is sound. I am one of those children borne by accident. Had I been aborted, as I should have been, both of my parents’ lives would have been bettter. While I wouldn’t have been here, someone else would have. And would have have had a better life.
PBear42, your post breaks my heart. It is a tragic thing to feel that way, and even more tragic if, all uplifting things to say aside, it is true. Equally tragic is to be your parent, loving you, and knowing you speak the truth.
You are a real person who, like any living creature born, deserved a good life. Reading your post makes me think what the child that I prevented could have felt. And then I think about what it would be like if the happy toddler didn’t exist that is now sitting on my lap as I type this, singing along with You Tube clips.
If this is true or not is entirely in your hands, it is your desire on this and it’s effect on your life which will be the reality of the situation. You are one of the few children of the abortion issue that actually gets to make that choice. Your parents chose life, which life includes abundance and thriving, it is now your choice to make on this.
I believe it’s possible, but also rare in someone’s lifetime. They sometimes may meet their aborted child - I believe that is far more common, as that child will come through (be born through) a different person. Also in a reincarnation sense I don’t believe time is a factor, so a aborted child could come earlier in a new body then the date he/she was aborted. This can cause ‘adult’ relationships between parent and aborted child which will heal the heart of both, which I believe is fairly common.
Ultimately I also believe that all children will be returned to their parents, so no child is eternally lost. There is a pull of the hearts of both to reconnect.
That is really the same question as asking if it is appropriate for some pro-lifers to feel anger at women who had an abortion, like me.