You are certainly correct about visible light, and jinx is right about convective currents affecting (light), as is easily visible on a hot day (like every day in Houston, right johnnyharvard?).
But could these factors affect the Doppler shift? Again, I’ve never seen it asserted, and there were a lot of allegations raised in the Dade County RADAR trial. To be a factor, it would have to be demonstrated that these circumstances not only can give a higher reading, but a higher reading by more than 1 mph (courts generally accept this as an acceptable variance).
johnnyharvard, is it clear from your conversation with the cop that he was using Doppler RADAR and not LiDAR? I know you said RADAR in the OP, but I just wanted to be sure before we go further (farther? damn, I never get those right). In either case, a vehicle in your lane between you and he would be a definite defense point, though moreso in the case of RADAR.
No, I don’t know what type of device was used. I would assume it was radar (I think he said radar and not just “gun”), but I can’t be sure it was not laser.
I’m going to request all of that information as part of my discovery request. (What kind of device, manual, policies, experience, etc.)
This also occurred on a relatively cool night (it was dark), so I don’t think the heat argument would work.
Raza, I have another question. I am looking at the ticket and there are some strange markings (code?) on the top. Again this is one of my discovery requests, but tell me if this means anything to you:
“S/R F/S V-S/B 2/2 51, ES-50, 3-5”
I think I know what the 51 means, but I can’t decide if these are technical data or just shorthand for “I caught him speeding on the access road with light traffic blah blah blah”
Okay. I admit that I gave up actually reading after I made it about halfway down, but I think the solution for the OP and several respondents should be clear:
Don’t live in Texas.
Finally found a copy of my discovery letter. Here’s what I asked for:
Section number of the statute or ordinance this allegation falls under.
Copy of the police report.
Copy of both sides of the police copy of the ticket issued.
Copy of the log of officer Amos Keith for June 26, 1996.
Copy of the statements of witnesses.
The name and model number of the radar unit used.
The dates of manufacture, purchase, and installation of the radar unit used.
Copy of the certifications and reports relating to the accurace of the radar unit used.
Copy of the certifications and reports relating to the training and/or qualifications of officer Amos Keith to use this radar unit.
Copies of all information on the most recent prescription (prior to this allegation) of officer Amos Keith’s eyeglasses.
Copies of all complaints made against officer Amos Keith.
Copy of officer Amos Keith’s personnel file.
The name of the judge who will be presiding at the trial.
The name and State Bar Identification Number of the prosecuting attorney.
Copies of any other reports, test results, certifications, or other written documents related to this allegation that I’m legally entitled to obtain by way of discovery.
They provide everything except items 10 through 12. I think 10 was a valid request. 11 and 12 were probably borderline, though that information should be public record anyway, as this is a government employee. I doubt there would have been anything I could have used, though.
Of the other items, I read somewhere to ask for item 3 because sometimes cops write notes on the back of their copy of the ticket that won’t show up on your copy. Item 14 was in case the prosecutor tried anything that I could complain to the State Bar about. Item 15 should cover anything else they have in the file. If they don’t provide it, and you find out about it later under a Freedom of Information request, use it against them.
You’ll get nowhere in court arguing against the validity of radar. You do stand a chance against lidar, though. Check
this article for details. (If that doesn’t come out, I’ll post again with the entire address.)
Another potential argument might be that the radar gun is the actual witness against you, not the cop. If the radar gun is not present in court to testify against you, and give you a chance to cross-examine it, the charge should be dismissed. You’ll probably need a sharp lawyer to pull this off, though.
This from someone in Ohio? Your state troopers have arguably the worst reputation in the country as storm troopers on the highways. I lived in Columbus for a year, and tried to avoid interstate travel as much as possible for that reason.
Also, the thermometer in my carport currently reads 85 degrees. How’s the weather up there?
Probably court refresher notes. The FL citations had a place for such on the reverse of the file copy, but not having given or received a TX one (yet…new car, though), I’m not sure…it may be the only place they have.
My WAGs: “S/R” = stationary RADAR
“V-S/B” = vehicle southbound
Some of the others could be Dept# for the gun, patrol zone and/or vehicle, etc.
Melatonin advised:
Like many of us here, I’m not from Texas. But I make 50% more here than other places I’d rather be. I’m certainly no fan of Houston (turned down a $24K/yr raise there), but Dallas isn’t worse than Cincinatti and Austin is pretty nice.
I was born here, spent 6 years in Boston, and jumped at the chance when they offered me a chance to transfer to our Houston office. Traffic court might suck, but Houston is a big city and I would assume it’s that way in all big cities. NBD.
I love Texas - big sunsets, fishing in the gulf, golf in January, bluebonnets in the spring. Boston is nice - but it’s not Texas!
Sorry Raza, thanks for the help, but Houston beats snooty Dallas anyday
Given a choice between the two, I’d choose Dallas any day, but that’s because I’m snooty.
If you must live in Texas, Austin is the only place to be. I spent several decades in Florida, and never got used to the humidity. Houston’s climate reminds me of Florida, whereas Austin’s humidity generally stays under 50%. I’m a mountain boy at heart, so at least in Austin we have views.
To throw a little on-topic meat into this post: I don’t think your overall tactic would be different with RADAR vs. LiDAR, but if he was using LiDAR I’d sure like to know how he did it if he was facing forward (away from you).
The MotorTrend article linked to a few posts ago was interesting, but nowhere in the article or in the courtroom was it shown that the device gave falsely high readings (clocking a wall at 4mph is the same as a RADAR clocking an air conditioning fan; we all know they do that, but walls and a/c fans won’t sign the dang citations). All that came of it was the judge (as finder of fact) had a reasonable doubt. That is all you are trying to accomplish, should you decide to go to trial.
Exactly. I don’t think I can prove that I was n’t speeding and it would be stupid to try. Rather my plan is to try establish that there is a reasonable doubt as to whether it was my car the clocked. We’ve been through all of the factors. Here are my favorite two:
1.) He was facing backwards and looking into a group of headlights on a dark night - how could he know he was looking at me?
2.) Being next to an interstate, were proper precautions in place to prevent incorrect readings of vehicles on the freeway?
I just want to find an inconsistency and then see if I can build it up. That’s my best chance.
Assuming he had a fixed antenna attached the car facing rearward, aiming becomes problematic in an urban environment. Even with the more modern Ka band RADAR, the beam width is fairly wide. About the only way he could be certain he was measuring your speed vs. another car is if you were the only vehicle, or if the other vehicles were behind you and of similar or smaller size (a bit of a simplification, since size does matter but is not the only consideration).
Does anyone know if his video recorder would be running as the cop scanned traffic that night, or is it only turned on when the cop leaves the car? Does the camera face backward?
Actually, from my last stint in traffic school a year ago, Texas is one of the few states where NOT keeping up with traffic is considered an offense and where the speed limit can sometimes be argued in court to be the speed of surrounding traffic. This all goes back to the “natural and reasonable” speed argument.
I’m not planning on using that argument, though. I think I have a better chance of discrediting the use of the device rather than trying to make up an excuse for speeding.
If he had a video camera in the vehicle, you could ask for a copy of his videotape for that entire day in your discovery request.
However this turns out, I hope you post with the outcome. Good luck.
I’ve lived in Dallas, Austin, and El Paso. Since I’ve only been through Houston, I can’t really compare it with Dallas, but both cities are way too big any more.
