Speeding...

Factual Questions
1

Hypothetically, 2 cars are driving down the left hand of a highway following each other going way above the speed limit. They pass by a police officer who hits the first with radar.

Does the police officer go after the first car who he clocked. Or…assuming neither car was smart enough to slow down after they saw the cop, does the cop get the 2nd car who is doing the same speed because the cop will approach that car first.

How about if its a line of 10 cars?

I guess what I really want to know if its safer (from a ticket perspective) to lead a pack of speeding cars…or to bring up the rear. Would I always be safe…in the middle?

2

Well… If I was a PO:

It would depend on my mood. They’d get you on radar before they pull you over, but I don’t think that it would be a problem for them to wait a second to see how fast you’re going as well, as long as they can see that you’re following. I’d imagine they could even get both of you.

The way I always do it is to follow a speeding car VERY far back, where I can see them way ahead. This way if a cop sees them coming, I won’t be close enough for him to see me following, as long as I’m back far enough, and chances are the officer will pull out in front of me to chase the other person. The other advantage to lots of room is the extra stopping distance needed if the speeder in front of you is drunk or whatever and crashes into somebody.

3

Similar situation happened to me.

I was the car next to a speeding car, just slightly behind.
Cop motioned both of us over. I sat waiting while he wrote a ticket for the first car (meanwhile his partner came over and started chatting with me, very nice guy, asked me out to dinner). Cop #1 came over to me and gave me a verbal warning about speeding, saying he could not write two tickets off the same radar reading. Technically he could have written me a ticket because he saw I was speeding, but I think he was just being nice.

Taught me not to speed and proved I can sweat very hard.

As I am growing older and wiser, I find few valid reasons for me to speed. No matter how late I am, I’d rather get there alive in my car than in an ambulance (if I am so lucky). Road rage just isn’t worth it - getting p’d off at someone on the road is just going to ruin my day. I stay in the right lane, stay well back, and keep the cell phone on in case of accidents or dangerous drivers.

(And yes, I went to dinner with Cop #2. Very nice dinner, too bad he was married. [Ugh. I hate when that happens.])

4

I spoke to a Virginia Highway Patrol sergeant re: the OP. He had a few things to say, as I know him personally, but added that you’d have a tough time coaxing the info out of some troopers. It seems that many are taught that a bit of secrecy about traffic law enforcement goes a long way in correcting the original problem (unsafe driving)…
His first comment was to advise the following:

“SLOW THE F*@$! DOWN!”

I know this isn’t the info you were looking for, but he made me promise to tell you that. He says if you DO get a trooper to answer your questions to confirm what he says, also ask him about fatal accidents on the highway…i.e. how many the trooper has seen, how gruesome they are, and (you knew this was coming) what was the biggest factor contributing to the severity of the accident.

OK. You’re an adult, so here’s the Straight Dope:

If the officer is using standard X or K band radar, depending on the distance at which he clocks the offender, he will usually decide on the fly whom to ticket. Yup. It’s somewhat arbitrary. However, lots of factors can influence the decision…here are a few:

Distance between vehicles. The radar isn’t terribly focused at longer ranges, so to be safe, the trooper picks the most isolated target…it may not be the “lead car” or even the fastest-moving…but it’s the easiest to get a bead on. The first car in a line of offenders will TYPICALLY be cited.
Willful disregard. Blowing by the officer without slowing down, even if you weren’t the fastest-moving of offenders, will get you a ticket every time.
Size of vehicle. The offender in the larger vehicle is more likely to be cited for two reasons: He makes a bigger target for the radar, and the size of the vehicle makes speeding all the more dangerous.
Much of this assumes that the Trooper is only going to cite one offender…they would ideally cite all offenders, but sometimes it’s not practical to do so. And I’m sure you’ve seen the set-up whereby one Trooper clocks 'em and a whole mess of Troopers are waiting around the bend to round up each and every offender after a radio call from the first Trooper.

In regards to your OP, the safest (shhh!) place to be to avoid a speeding citation is NEXT TO another vehicle…but this is dangerous and don’t do it. It makes it very difficult for the trooper to definitively say that it was YOUR vehicle that he clocked…but this is dangerous and don’t do it. The larger the vehicle next to you, the better, helping to raise doubts in the Trooper’s mind (he doesn’t want to have to fight with you in court about this)…but this is dangerous and don’t do it.

All of this goes out the window if the Trooper is using a laser speed detector. They’re really accurate, even at long range…but this is dang…oh, wait, that part isn’t.

I hope this helps.

Thank you, and Goodnight.

5

I used to subscribe to the notion of “some one else speeding is my best chance of not getting a ticket.”

Apparently traffic cops read the same books I do.

They’re now traveling in tandem…

I don’t speed much anymore and definately NOT on the highway.

6

Technically, if the flow of traffic is above the speed limit, you’re supposed to go above the speed limit–with the flow of traffic. Where I live it is unlawful for the police to pull someone over for speeding if they’re going with the traffic flow–even if it’s 25 mph over the speed limit. Now I’m not sure how many cars make a traffic flow, it seems logical to me that at least 2 cars could make one–considering you’re out in an open stretch of highway. Maybe someone else could expound on this…

7

[slight hijack]

Neither speeding (driving over the posted speed limit) nor speed (driving what some consider fast) in and of itself causes accidents, fatal or otherwise.

And there are many organizations trying to get this message out. Take a look if you like:
[ul]
[li]http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/home2.html[/li][li]http://www.motorists.org/[/li][li]http://web.missouri.edu/~c669885/ncasl/[/li][li]http://www.therune.com/therune/hutchins/speed/speed.htm[/li][/ul]

I think that any further discussions along those lines belong in Great Debates, not in an answer to the OP.

[/slight hijack]

Regarding the OP, I’ve only seen multiple cars pulled over in speed-trap situations, where there are 3 or more police cars: 1 to zap the passing cars, and the rest to pull them over.

Regarding Jingo’s post, I think he’s pretty much nailed it: It all depends on the circumstances.

If a single cop did try to ticket two drivers for one radar match, though, I bet the ticketees could easily get the charges dismissed. Radar must usually be applied to one vehicle at a time. The officer would have no way to legally prove that both cars caused the radar reading. (Sorry, no cite.)

8

I was driving toward Dallas on I45 one afternoon a few years ago doing about 60, the speed limit was 55 at the time. A long line of trucks and cars went flying by me doing about 75 or more. As they passed, I saw a state trooper coming toward me on the service road. He cut across the ditch and came up on the highway. He flew by me with his lights on, I was now driving exactly 55, and caught up with the group. I could see him pointing for them to pull to the shoulder. He made his way all the way to the front of the group, pulling all of them over. When I went by, he was just getting out of his car with a big ticket book in his hand and about 12 or 15 trucks and cars parked along the shoulder.

So, there just may not be a safe place in a group to not get a ticket.

Jim

9

If you read the operator’s manual that comes with every radar gun, you’d learn that there is no way for the cop to know which car is going how fast. Let me say that again. THERE IS NO WAY FOR A COP TO KNOW WHICH CAR IS GOING HOW FAST. The manuals actually SAY that. So if you want to beat a radar ticket, and you know the cop will acknowledge that there were other cars around you, even cars going in the opposite direction, all you need to do is get a copy of the manual. It’ll be in the public domain, and they can’t deny you access to it.

Get caught with laser, OTOH, and you may as well write a check for the fine…amazingly tough to beat a laser rap.

10

I saw a (1) cop pull over a 7 deep convoy… he just got on the loud speaker and pull up next to each one in succession from the back and said “pull over” … nobody was stupid enough to be the sacrifical lamb… the best way not to get pulled over (besides not speeding) is to know the area you are driving in and know what the cops allow there… some areas the cops are mad anal and others they let you run… also when you see a cop, slow down (dont slam on brakes) …
if you blow by them you will piss them off…

11

The biggest power the police have is one of selection and discretion. In the case of two cars speeding, they’ll pick one if they can’t get them both.

Silo: you’re in la-la land if you beleve that you have the right to exceed the speed limit just because everybody else is. I challange you to cite a statute or ordinance to that effect.

12

A bit off topic, but it kind of applies to the issue of speeding on the highway. I recently heard discussion by the SQ (Quebec provincial police) that THEY would like to raise the highway speed limit from 100km/hr to 120km/hr. They said cars are safer than they were when the limit was first set, and there are too many vehicles traveling at least that fast to really feel justified ticketing some of them.

13

In a car while my brother was driving, a trooper did pull over three cars that were all going about 15 miles over the speed limit. This was in Colorado.

On the last speeding ticket I got, there was a box for the trooper to check that indicated how he knew I was speeding, the choices were Radar (the one he used), Distance, Pacing, and, believe it or not, Sight. Is the assumption that an experienced trooper can eyeball how fast you were going? I would tend to believe this – if a trooper with 10 years of service told a judge I was speeding, I doubt anyone would take my word over his. If this is the case, and the trooper doesn’t even need to be using radar to have the ticket hold up in court, then I wonder if you really could agrue that there is no way of knowing which vehicle the radar was targeting.

Silo, I think I should move to where you live. I got a ticket about three years ago for going 9 miles above the speed limit even though I was keeping pace with the traffic. This was in Kansas. I was driving a car with out-of-state plates, and I still wonder if this is a factor when troopers select which car to pull over.

14

Heading eastbound on I-96 just outside of East Lansing, MI, I was following another car in the left lane about 15 over the limit (actually I was waiting for that car to get out of the way so I could get to a perfectly reasonable 85). The other car and I both see the Michigan state police hiding in the median, so we both squeeze into the right lane to match the speed of the rest of traffic – me still following the same car. The trooper finally shows up, squeezes his way between my car and the other speeder, and promptly pulls HIM over instead of me.

I would have been the better target, had I been able to do the speed I wanted. I think the only reason he pulled that car over instead of me was because its passengers were black, and I was not.

I have to fight a ticket coming up this Wednesday morning. I don’t care about the fine (well, I do, but I’m willing to pay the $100 for a measly 10MPH over on the interstate), I just want to avoid the points. So, I’m not going to try to “get out of” the ticket, but ask for an alternate something-or-other no involving points. Any suggestions?

15

Balthisar - most states allow driver’s ed classes to remove points from your record. You’ll have to check for your state. However, your insurance premiums will still go up if you’re near a threshold between preferred, standard or non-standard rates or if your carrier surcharges for violations. Each insurer’s policy varies on how much activity (violations/accidents/losses) they will allow prior to placing your business at a less preferred rate. Likewise, guidelines vary for surchargeability for violations. A few states (rate filings have to be approved by the state) prohibit surcharging for minor violations and often consider 10mph or less over the limit to be minor.

The driver’s ed class only removes the points from your driving record towards a suspension for accumulation of points, as I stated previously your insurance company will not waive a violation for successfully completing driver’s ed, safe driver or remedial driving classes.

16

We don’t have the option to do so here in Michigan, although I remember the program they had in Texas was exactly how you described it.

I guess what I want is to plea the charge down to something that’s not a violation my insurance company would nail me for. I have a perfect driving record, so I am a “preferred” customer already, and I’d like to keep it that way. For the record, I’m NOT a dangerous driver (not a higher risk for the insurance), just fast, and speed doesn’t kill.

Granted, I know I can get the charge reduced to “burnt out tail light” but nevertheless am seeking something to propose to the judge. I think the officer, when asked, will agree 100% that I wasn’t presenting a danger to myself nor anyone - he was just upholding the letter of the law by participating in the speedtrap.