Every episode of every series should stand alone. Anything else feels like being manipulated.
“Collect the whole set!!”. Screw that! How about if I, not them, decide whether I collect the set?
So you’re against multi episode story arcs? I’m personally a big fan of those versus a parade of self-contained episodes.
What I don’t like is when like you say, they have the first episode of the night on “The Rookie” end, and then pick up on “The Rookie: Feds” (or whatever it was called with Niecy Nash) and end the storyline on that show. Not that I disliked that show, and I’m actually glad they’re bringing back the same Feds for later Rookie episodes even though Rookie:Feds didn’t succeed, but I don’t like being crowbared into watching their new show either.
I’m totally against multi-episode story arcs. If you can’t tell a self-contained story in 22 minutes, go make a friggin’ movie.
I might watch your show once every 6 weeks. I don’t want to be unable to make sense of an episode if I haven’t watched the three immediately previous episodes in order plus 2 others more or less at arndom from previous arcs that somehow introduced this one. Screw that noise.
You’re a hard customer for TV shows… most modern ones have multi-episode arcs, even if they are somewhat stand-alone.
It’s totally deliberate audience manipulation to trigger the desire to want to watch every episode in order with no gaps.
I’m kind of surprised that you don’t think that TV is too sophisticated, you think it isn’t unsophisticated enough.
LSL has a somewhat eccentric view on TV. I remember a thread where he said that he didn’t understand someone watching TV if there was another person in the room, that it was something to only be watched alone. (Because if someone else is in the room, you should be paying attention to them, not the TV.) I’ve always imagined him with the sentiments of this guy (but not obnoxious or evangelical about it).
Straying from the topic of this thread, but I think most pilots are bad. Some have leaked, and I’ve listened to table readings of never produced ones, and pretty much they’re all bad. It is no surprise to me at all that a back door pilot is also bad.
Inspired by another thread, what about books? The Neal Stephenson novel Fall; or, Dodge in Hell could be described as a spinoff rather than a sequel to Reamde. It does come after, but it follows one of the lesser characters from Reamde. We then find out that both of those books are spinoffs of Cryptonomicon, which is possibly a spinoff of the whole Baroque Cycle.
Agreed completely. If they depended on me as the sole arbiter of what got produced, the rest of y’all wouldn’t bother to watch.
Those old-school pilots weren’t just to gauge audience interest, they were to give the producers something they could show to the networks. It’s a lot cheaper to make a pilot out of an episode of a running series because you’re already up and running and have a budget to work with, you don’t need to convince anyone to fund a new production from scratch. Also, you’ve got a built-in audience, you don’t need to spend anything extra on promoting it. And even if it never goes to series, you still get to profit from it in syndication as part of the original show.
The trouble with purely episodic series is the reason for one of the most common criticisms of most of the Star Trek franchise: last week, something happened or was discovered or invented that should change the entire game, or from which the characters should still be recovering emotionally etc. But everyone has forgotten all about it.
I’m with you. I like the idea of a premise, and everything in every episode fits within that premise: “Lou Grant is about the doings at a major newspaper,” “Love Boat is about adventures on a cruise ship,” “Hotel is about guests coming and going at a fancy hotel.” But if you miss any of these at first run, you can pick them up in summer reruns. No big deal. You haven’t missed anything.
The idea that you must sit glued to the tube next week to see what happens in the story arc? Dumb. Yes, we have PVRs and such now, so we won’t miss a minute even if we cannot tune in at the appointed time, but still. I’m a big fan of self-contained episodes.
If he was just another foil to be defeated, I don’t think they would have spent so much time establishing the character of his secretary (Teri Garr) and Seven’s relationship with her, nor dangled the “mystery” of his cat, Isis, who secretly turns into a beautiful woman sometimes. Those are the kind of extraneous details that we don’t usually see with weekly villains, but that do seem like fodder to be explored later in an ongoing series.
I certainly don’t know what the regular viewing public was aware of in first run. I didn’t see it until local station reruns in the early '80s.
And a I said, this was far from the worst offender. My brain just goes blank when trying to come up with examples.
Yes, that’s what I mean. I don’t mind an NCIS character showing up in NCIS: LA. I don’t even really mind an NCIS character appearing in a crossover to, say, Magnum, PI, as long as it’s self- contained. But I don’t want a storyline starting on Magnum, continuing on Hawaii Five Oh, then completing on NCIS:LA. If I’m not a follower of those shows, I don’t want to have to see their show to see the end of the story from mine.
Yes. There’s very little character growth because everything has to reset to baseline at the end, regardless of however troubling it was.
I’m okay with a series that has episode stories with a longer story arc that ties them together. What got tedious for me was the repetitiousness of the gimmicks used. Have a cop show? Have to have a serial killer come challenge your detectives and create a personal vendetta against your star that leads to that character getting kidnapped and almost killed. That kind of thing never happens IRL. But it’s de rigeur for cop shows.
Hell, Blue Bloods seemed to have at least one character kidnapped a year. Just how many times did the lawyer get taken hostage? How many times was her daughter pursued and have to be rescued? At some point is lazy writing for cheap manipulation.
It got so bad for shows that when the concept started, that was some season 3 cliffhanger episode for dramatic appeal. Then it became more common, until I remember some show that pulled that in, like, episode 3. Yes, pilot, one story, character kidnapped. Sorry, I don’t remember the specific show.
Anyway, the topic is supposed to be spinoffs that have spinoffs, i.e. a main character from the first carries over to the new shows. Something like Buffy spun off Angel, taking Angel and Cordelia and leading to crossovers. Now if Cordelia had had her own spinoff from Angel, that would be an example of what the OP wants.
I can’t think of any good examples. Unless you count Detective Munch moving from Homicide: Life on the Street through the various incarnations of Law & Order to become a main character on L&O: SVU.
Happy Days spun off Joanie Loves Chachi, but I’m unaware of a follow-on.
I am watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer for the first time. I was planning on watching Angel, and based on a suggestion from someone here I waited until the end of Season 3 and then watch both at the same time. But, there are stories that cross over. I found a place that gives the order to watch the shows. So, next is an Angel show followed by two Buffy’s.
The worst case of a backdoor pilot I can think of is Green Acres, which used the very last episode of the series to set up an otherwise unrelated show. Nearly as bad was the last episode of The Andy Griffith Show using the last episode to set up the continuation Mayberry RFD, introducing new, uninteresting characters.
I can’t think of many purely episodic series recently - there are lots of series that are mostly episodic but have something running through in the background. You can watch one episode of Law and Order and still know what’s going on - but there were also arcs like Lennies daughters addiction or Van Buren’s cancer that continued from episode to episode.
Or worse, when it’s something like the “Law & Order”/“Homicide” crossovers.
And those are especially bad if you’re watching in syndication because the “other show” is never included.
Yeah the recent Law & Order was a crossover with L&O- Special Victims unit- and I really hate that second show.
They canceled "Rookie -Feds, and thank goodness they did- it was terrible.