[QUOTE=control-z]
…especially if it’s a daily driver in traffic.
[/QUOTE]
Bingo.
Is a Tiptronic not good enough to be considered to have manual control of shifting or something?
[QUOTE=Cheesesteak]
Tuckerfan, would you say that a person can’t enjoy driving their car if it has an automatic?
[/QUOTE]
And you can enjoy sex with a condom, but I think most people would agree that it’s better without one.
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan]
And you can enjoy sex with a condom, but I think most people would agree that it’s better without one.
[/QUOTE]
Bingo! An automatic just takes the fun out of it–they’re mushy and unresponsive and you don’t get the feeling that you’re driving the car so much as taking a ride in the car. Plus, that auto tranny lag around a corner can kill you if you’re pushing it a bit, not to mention having the clutch there to remove power from the drive train instantly is a fabulous safety feature.
I have similar snobbery about front wheel vs. rear wheel drive vehicles. I drive an '89 Cavalier Z24 (2.8L V6, five speed) and the only thing that keeps it from being a REALLY fun car is the FWD. The handling dynamics of RWD + manny tranny beat the alternatives like the family pig… I’d rather drive a fullsize van with both than a “sports car” with neither, and I bet I can sling the van around better than all the wannabes in their stupidy fake ricer racers!
About those “paddle shift” A/Ts; do they keep the car locked in one gear till you shift? I’m wondering about my next car-wonder what a CVT tranny with paddleshift would be like. alas, its gatting hard to find manual shift cars.
[QUOTE=John DiFool]
That was my original point. It just demonstrates that the driver is a wannabee,
not willing to go the distance and really get into the driving experience. For
me that’s what it is all about (and not the status-seeking, or the chick-magnetism, etc.).
[/QUOTE]
Maybe the owner has to use his cell phone so much while driving that manual shifting would be tricky and dangerous. I know, I know, there’s Bluetooth and other handsfree ways of getting around that problem, but it’s still a factor. Ten years ago I would have agreed completely with the OP, but when a new technology appears on the scene, and explodes to near-universal popularity, like cell phones have, cultural attitudes are bound to adjust.
It is a shame though…a manual is far more fun to drive.
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan]
You do realize that for cars like the MG, 80 MPH’s the limit? A car doesn’t need to be capable of doing 190 MPH+ to be considered a sports car. Nor does one need to engage in risky or illegal behaviours to “dance around a curve.” Simply hugging the white line while you go around a curve at the speed limit can be a great deal of fun in the right car.
[/QUOTE]
Yep: when I mentioned “dancing”, I wasn’t talking about fool practices like drifting, leaving streaks of rubber on the road, or making silly noises with a coffee can exhaust. What I had in mind was that elegant little interplay between clutch, brake, accelerator and steering, between your mind and your right and left hands and your feet when you take a corner just right. Picking the right line to go into the corner, tapping the brake at just the right moment as you chop down a gear and pick your line out of the curve, then touching the gas to power smoothly out of it and then kicking it up a gear - until the next curve, when you go through the whole dance again, but subtly different this time. With the right car and the right road, the fun isn’t in going too fast or making a stupid noise - if you’re squealing the tyres or sliding sideways, you’re doing it wrong - it’s the feeling you get that you’re in charge of controlling this elegant little ballet.
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan]
Feh, no less of an automotive authority than Jay Leno has said that paddle shifters do not a sports car make…
[/QUOTE]
Double Feh. A fat rich comedian who can buy whatever kind of car or bike he wants does not make an automotive authority.
And actually I think you missed my point. I totally agree too, that a “real” sports car should have a manual tranny. But its hard to say it with a straight face after watching a few rounds of F1 or WRC. I wouldn’t make a convincing athiest if Jesus gave me next weeks winning lotto numbers now would I?
Well put Scissorjack!
I too am a fan of manual transmissions. It’s about control. It’s about being one with your machine. It’s an extension of you. It demands your attention. It needs you to react quickly and smoothly and it responds to you likewise. You, the driver, decides where/when to put your horsepower to work.
Also when traveling abroad, in my experience, I have found that most rental cars are manual and when you find an automatic, the rates are higher. So in that respect it’s even more practical.
I don’t think it makes you less cool or anything if you drive automatic. I feel it’s just a waste of a well designed car to put in an automatic transmission.
[QUOTE=ralph124c]
About those “paddle shift” A/Ts; do they keep the car locked in one gear till you shift? I’m wondering about my next car-wonder what a CVT tranny with paddleshift would be like. alas, its gatting hard to find manual shift cars.
[/QUOTE]
My wife’s MINI Cooper has that config. The computer will keep the transmission in one “gear” until A) you shift it. B) it hits redline C) it would stall if not down-shifted. Mind you, the “gears” on a CVT will manual override are just preset gear ratios, I prefer the infinite gear ratios of the CVT by itself.
[QUOTE=Scissorjack]
Yep: when I mentioned “dancing”, I wasn’t talking about fool practices like drifting, leaving streaks of rubber on the road, or making silly noises with a coffee can exhaust. What I had in mind was that elegant little interplay between clutch, brake, accelerator and steering, between your mind and your right and left hands and your feet when you take a corner just right. Picking the right line to go into the corner, tapping the brake at just the right moment as you chop down a gear and pick your line out of the curve, then touching the gas to power smoothly out of it and then kicking it up a gear - until the next curve, when you go through the whole dance again, but subtly different this time. With the right car and the right road, the fun isn’t in going too fast or making a stupid noise - if you’re squealing the tyres or sliding sideways, you’re doing it wrong - it’s the feeling you get that you’re in charge of controlling this elegant little ballet.
[/QUOTE]
That’s a great description of being one with your manual-transmission car and a curvy road, but not everybody is going to “get” that. And maybe that sort of thing isn’t suitable for all drivers, some people are less coordinated than others.
And going a little fast and making a bit of noise is fun once in a while. 
[QUOTE=Gatopescado]
Double Feh. A fat rich comedian who can buy whatever kind of car or bike he wants does not make an automotive authority.
[/quote]
You do know that Jay made his living as a Mercedes mechanic before his comedy career took off, don’t you? You also do know that while Jay does have literally one of the world’s best mechanics in his employ, he still turns a wrench on his cars and does all his parts shopping himself? And finally, you do know that Jay hates “trailer queens” and drives every car in his collection?
I dunno what WRC is, but I’ve watched F1 races (under protest) and I can’t say I find watching a bunch of guys driving around in a circle until they disappear up their own assholes all that exciting. Nor do I really want to drive one of those cars. There’s no real art to them, IMHO. The teams are given enormous budgets to work with, and can basically make/buy anything they want within the rules. Back in the early days of racing (and as late as the 1950s), it would have been interesting to watch, since there was still an art to building the cars. I’ve met a guy who restored several prize winning Indy cars (prize winning both in the sense that they won a lot of races as well as winning at Pebble Beach for the quality of the restoration work that he did on them) and the teams couldn’t just design parts and have them built, they had to hunt around for off-the-shelf items to build their cars with.
I, too, am tired of all the transmission snobbery. I can’t count how many times I’ve heard, “is that thing a 5-speed?” only to be met with a disgusted head-shake when I answer no.
I drive a firebird, which I guess falls more into the category of “really really wants to be a sports car” and I’m still met with this.
I drive an automatic for two reasons:
- When buying my first car, it was the obvious option: nobody I knew had a manual or was in the position to teach me how to use one. All subsequent cars have been bought with somewhat of a sense of urgency. That is, the previous car is out of comission and I don’t have the liberty of saying “you know, I think I’ll buy a manual and just teach myself to use it!”
- I LIKE driving an automatic. I LIKE just cruising along without worrying about switching gears. I know I know – once you know how to do it, it’s second nature, but it still interferes with the ‘cruising along’ feeling to me. I also like not having to jolt forward every three seconds due to changing gears.
I still feel like the car is as pretty damn responsive enough (again, this isn’t a porche we’re talking about here), as well as feeling “in tune with the car” or whatever ilk was mentioned earlier. I like having the ability to just mash down on the gas pedal and go without a second thought if I want to, or, if I’m in the mood, baby it into performing well.
Yes, I’m defensive. But I just can’t stand the mindset of a car being rendered worthless if its automatic.
[QUOTE=Br’er Lapin]
I LIKE just cruising along… it still interferes with the ‘cruising along’ feeling to me.
[/QUOTE]
That’s not really the point of a sports car.
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan]
There’s no real art to them, IMHO. The teams are given enormous budgets to work with, and can basically make/buy anything they want within the rules.
[/QUOTE]
Well, according to the fans, that’s sort of the point. The cars have evolved to the point where they have to spend $10million on a car to gain couple of hundredths of second per lap. Whereas a really superb driver can be half a second a lap quicker than a merely very very good driver.
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.]
That’s not really the point of a sports car.
[/QUOTE]
So what is the point of a sports car?
[QUOTE=Scissorjack]
What I had in mind was that elegant little interplay between clutch, brake, accelerator and steering, between your mind and your right and left hands and your feet when you take a corner just right. Picking the right line to go into the corner, tapping the brake at just the right moment as you chop down a gear and pick your line out of the curve, then touching the gas to power smoothly out of it and then kicking it up a gear - until the next curve, when you go through the whole dance again, but subtly different this time
[/QUOTE]
Indeed, when I don’t have baby in the car and I’m heading back to or from my parents’ place, I can take advantage of one of the good points of living in Northern Ireland, the back roads. Its all about how you take the car though the corners, uphill or down, and how you can feel much more satisfaction from blipping the accelerator at the right moment and smoothly change down so you drop no speed.
[QUOTE=scr4]
So what is the point of a sports car?
[/QUOTE]
Its a car that offers a lot more fun when driving, specifically by letting the driver get more and more involved. Two seats and a soft top let you feel more at one with the driving, hearing and seeing and feeling much more. The manual gets you more involved in the decision making, auto boxes are one more barrier between you and the action.
All of this will be a moot point once the Borg Warner DSG transmission becomes more popular. You can get it in virtually all VAG products, from the VW Golf to the Bugatti Veyron (not quite the same, but similar technology), even BMW is rumoured to be abandoning their own SMG trannies and licensing DSG for their next generation M cars. A Diesel Audi with DSG transmission is pretty much the pinnacle of automotive technology at this point.
Direktschaltgetriebe - The way of the future!
[QUOTE=scr4]
So what is the point of a sports car?
[/QUOTE]
You’re not going to get a good answer, because this is a True Scotsman argument:
Argument - No sports car has an automatic tranny.
Reply - The prototypical American Sports Car, the Corvette, has always had an automatic available, and some years only offered automatics. Autos can also be found in practically every american sports car line out there, from Mustangs to Camaros to Shelbys, Chargers all three big manufacturers. New models and classic muscle cars, autos have been offered ever since they were invented.
Rebuttal - Ah yes, but no TRUE sports car has an automatic.