Sprint PCS can kiss my cellular ass.

[GaWd]

@Lightnin'

Yeah. I should’ve expected Sprint to try to lock me into yet ANOTHER contract. Heaven forbid I should want to find a better deal. Hell, I should just give them extra money each month just 'cause they deserve it.

You fucking dunce. ALL cellphone companies require contract renewals for things like downgrading service and changing numbers. It IS a major change to your account. Just because to you it was a transparent change doesn’t mean that behind the scenes there aren’t 400 systems and divisions that are utilized to make that change transparent to YOU.

In fact, I’ve been involved with 3 cell companies. They all required new contracts for things that you would consider “not major”. New phones, reduced plans, new numbers. Why is the concept so hard for you to grasp?

Do the actions of FOUR CSRs determine it? 'Cause that’s how many I talked to. I got the CSR runaround for three hours yesterday. What’s the minimum number for perceived scumminess? What’s a good statistical sampling?

You’re saying it took the actions of 4 CSRs all having the exact same conversation with you about changing your service to change your number? If so, that’s reason enough to leave a company. If on the other hand, we’re talking about 4 CSRs after you changing your service, well, it’s not really their fault that the initial person you talked to “conveniently” forgot to tell you about your contract.

That was a convenient lack of recall. How often do you suppose that sort of thing happens? And besides- if they “forget” to mention to me that I’m agreeing to a new contract, then, in my view, I didn’t agree to no fuckin’ contract.

Then take it up with a manager, dummy. I’m sure if you had called them as soon as you found out and unloaded a pound of lead into their ass about it, instead of whining on a messageboard, the problem would be fixed. In my experience, companies take accusations of contract fraud to heart and not lightly, either.

A new phone number should NOT be a “major change”. They certainly didn’t present it as such- it took them less than five minutes to do it, and they didn’t say anything about how big a change it was. Hell, I didn’t even HAVE to do it- I could’ve kept using the Texas number. If I’d known that they’d slam me with another contract (or charge me ten bucks a month thereafter), I would’ve just kept the damn number. Now, unfortunately, it’s too late- they won’t just change it back.

Myself and at least one other person(who appears to be involved with a major provider of cell service), have told you how un-transparent a number change really is. You still have no grasp of the concept. Changing your phone number IS a major change to your service. How can you not see it as anything but major?

And, yeah, you bet your ass I’m dealing with it. Today, for example, I’m shopping around the other providers.

It’s nice to see an empowered consumer!

If Sprint had their way, I wouldn’t even be able to do THAT.

Oh yeah, the mighty hand of Sprint would just cut your services off if they heard a rumor going around that indicated you were looking at other providers! :eek:

Your business isn’t worth that much. Besides that, all cell companies have gotten a fair share of their competitors since the portability act kicked in and they know for every one that leaves them, one or two from elsewhere join up.

Sam

[Venoma]

@GaWd

I don’t know what your deal was with AT&T, but I don’t understand why some consumers have a hard time dealing with the nature of contracts, how they affect them, why they affect them, and why they are in place. Maybe my experience in law and business allows me to understand and accept these nuances better than most consumers, I don’t know.

As a customer service drone who asks customers at least 10 times daily to agree to a one year contract, who will always verify with a customer that they were notified if one was added in the last month, and has had to deal with the mess left behind when a customer was not informed of a one year contract, most customers have no problem with it if they’re properly informed - then they have the chance to make an informed decision. If a customer was not informed a one year contract would be promptly removed from the account by any authorized customer service representative with a lick of sense - otherwise you end up with bad PR - like this thread.

[mks57]

@GaWd

I don’t know what your deal was with AT&T, but I don’t understand why some consumers have a hard time dealing with the nature of contracts, how they affect them, why they affect them, and why they are in place. Maybe my experience in law and business allows me to understand and accept these nuances better than most consumers, I don’t know.

Whatever it is, I encourage more consumers to understand their contracts with providers, and accept them as the way of things going forward.
Sam

Maybe it’s because the theory and reality of contracts are so different. A contract is supposed to be a negotiated agreement between two parties for their mutual benefit. In real life, we have contracts of adhesion, contracts intentionally written in impenetrable language, contracts that can be amended after the fact by one party, contracts that only appear after you have bought the product and open the box or try to install the software, contracts that knowingly contain illegal terms for intimidation value, contracts that try to eliminate the other party’s legal rights in case of a dispute. In many cases, contracts are used as a legal bludgeon against a substantially weaker party who is told “take it or leave it”, or that it is “standard industry practice”.

[GaWd]

@Venoma

As a customer service drone who asks customers at least 10 times daily to agree to a one year contract, who will always verify with a customer that they were notified if one was added in the last month, and has had to deal with the mess left behind when a customer was not informed of a one year contract, most customers have no problem with it if they’re properly informed - then they have the chance to make an informed decision. If a customer was not informed a one year contract would be promptly removed from the account by any authorized customer service representative with a lick of sense - otherwise you end up with bad PR - like this thread.

I agree with you, and you’ve made my point for me. Not only would most agents know better than to lock a client in without telling him so, but there are many avenues open to the customer who feels they were locked in without justification or agreement.

@mks57

Maybe it’s because the theory and reality of contracts are so different. A contract is supposed to be a negotiated agreement between two parties for their mutual benefit. In real life, we have contracts of adhesion, contracts intentionally written in impenetrable language, contracts that can be amended after the fact by one party, contracts that only appear after you have bought the product and open the box or try to install the software, contracts that knowingly contain illegal terms for intimidation value, contracts that try to eliminate the other party’s legal rights in case of a dispute. In many cases, contracts are used as a legal bludgeon against a substantially weaker party who is told “take it or leave it”, or that it is “standard industry practice”.

Or maybe it’s because consumers are like sheep. As sheep, when they see something in a contract they don’t like, they roll their eyes into their sheepish little heads and sign on the dotted line anyways. Then when the sheep aren’t happy, the sheep bleat woefully in the hopes that other sheep will understand their plight and comfort them.

A contract is not to “mutually benefit” the two parties. A contract is a document negotiated between two or more parties that is legally enforceable. If the terms in the contract signed are unacceptable, one can use whatever clause allows them to unencumber themselves-in this case, a $150 termination fee(or a properly lodged complaint with the company in question explaining that a contract was foisted upon him with no warning or agreement). The consumer can take it or leave it. There are many companies out there without contract obligations to whom he can turn if the terms don’t work for him.

As for being used as a “legal bludgeon”, it is a legal isntrument. Most all legal instruments are in use today so that they may be used as a “legal bludgeon” if necessary. Otherwise, we wouldn’t use them at all.
Sam

[Lightnin]

@GaWd

Or maybe it’s because consumers are like sheep. As sheep, when they see something in a contract they don’t like, they roll their eyes into their sheepish little heads and sign on the dotted line anyways. Then when the sheep aren’t happy, the sheep bleat woefully in the hopes that other sheep will understand their plight and comfort them.

My, aren’t we superior. If you’ll notice, you condescending prick, what I’ve been complaining about all along was the fact that I was not notified that changing my phone number would entail me signing up for yet another year. If I’d known, I wouldn’t have changed the damn number in the first place.

Because they didn’t say, “Sorry, but you agreed to this when you signed the original contract six years ago,”, and instead relied upon, “The computer won’t let us change your number without automatically signing you up for another year, sorry nobody bothered to tell you when you first called”, I’m now looking for another provider.

Of course, I can’t find a copy of the agreement on the Sprint webpage- why, it’s almost like they don’t want anyone to know exactly what they’re agreeing to!

Welcome to the Pit, asswipe. You see, people come in here and rant and rave, 'cause it makes them feel better. I had something to say, and I got it off my chest. I didn’t do it to garner sympathy- hell, if anything, I’m trying to warn others who might get into my same position. :wally

[caphis]

what I’ve been complaining about all along was the fact that I was not notified that changing my phone number would entail me signing up for yet another year

You don’t need to be notified. You were told when you agreed to the original contract. I’d say that them reminding you is a good deed on their part.

Of course, I can’t find a copy of the agreement on the Sprint webpage- why, it’s almost like they don’t want anyone to know exactly what they’re agreeing to!

…except that a copy of the contract is provided to you when you sign up for the service, and is available subsequently by, oh, I don’t know, asking for it.

Your quote would make more sense if you had said “…exactly what they already agreed to”.

[mks57]

@GaWd

Or maybe it’s because consumers are like sheep. As sheep, when they see something in a contract they don’t like, they roll their eyes into their sheepish little heads and sign on the dotted line anyways. Then when the sheep aren’t happy, the sheep bleat woefully in the hopes that other sheep will understand their plight and comfort them.

I suppose you would be happy if we went back to 19th century contract law? Hell, lets go back to 19th century labor law. Freedom of Contract trumps all.

[GaWd]

@Lightnin'

My, aren’t we superior. If you’ll notice, you condescending prick, what I’ve been complaining about all along was the fact that I was not notified that changing my phone number would entail me signing up for yet another year. If I’d known, I wouldn’t have changed the damn number in the first place.

Wah. Just being real for a moment there.

Because they didn’t say, “Sorry, but you agreed to this when you signed the original contract six years ago,”, and instead relied upon, “The computer won’t let us change your number without automatically signing you up for another year, sorry nobody bothered to tell you when you first called”, I’m now looking for another provider.

Look, I still won’t side with a CSR who changed your number without informing you that there was a contract change needed. But you’re daffy if you didn’t full well expect it. THe computer probably won’t ok a service change like that without one.

Of course, I can’t find a copy of the agreement on the Sprint webpage- why, it’s almost like they don’t want anyone to know exactly what they’re agreeing to!

Or maybe it’s because everyone who has a different plan has a different contract. Different service levels, Etc. And not only that, but they’re not likely to put their contract online for the world to read. I highly fucking doubt that any other provider would, either.

Welcome to the Pit, asswipe.

Welcome, Sheep.

Sam

[GaWd]

@mks57

I suppose you would be happy if we went back to 19th century contract law? Hell, lets go back to 19th century labor law. Freedom of Contract trumps all.

I’m sorry, that’s such a non sequitor reply.

I don’t quite understand what the quoted material about people being fucking morons and signing any old contract, even if they don’t understand the ramifications of doing so, has to do with 19th century law?

Look, people, if you sign a contract, keep it handy. If you have a question about it, don’t sign it until you fucking get an answer to it. If you do sign it, you need to understand what that means to you when doing things that impact the force of the document-yes, even 6 years later.

Sam

[Cerri]

FWIW, my fiance signed up with Sprint a couple months ago (and we’re extremely happy with the service thus far), it was explained to him before he signed his contract that any changes such as plan changes, adding a phone, or changing numbers would result in him needing to re-up.

Sorry, it was in your contract, you should have read it better. That was crappy of the original CSR to not remind you of it, though.

[Tuckerfan]

Ex-Sprint PCS Customer Servile Drone here. I’m not sure if SPCS is still using the same crappy ass software they had when I was there (though I wouldn’t be surprised if they were). Changing someone’s area code is a royal PITA, especially if they’re on an old plan, because you see, the software doesn’t like you switching them to a new area code while keeping them on the same plan. (Shit, it didn’t even like you changing area codes, period!) If you know the workarounds, then it’s possible to occassionally avoid this. Otherwise, they’re stuck picking a new plan which they may not like. The software also automatically added a new agreement, but again, if you knew what the hell you were doing, you could prevent that from happening (after all, if you’ve got a customer who’s been with the company a number of years, they’re not likely to go somewhere else).

SPCS also came up with the bright idea of charging customers every time they tried to do something with their account, whether they talked with a human or went through one of the automated systems.

My advice is the following: Next time you call up SPCS, ask for the drone’s id number. That’s the only way that you’ll be able to track that person down if something goes wrong. When I worked there, the id number was something like P10BDra3. The P10 was the location of the call center, BDra3 was the beginning of the persons email address, the rest of it was @sprintspectrum.com Now, SPCS has outsourced their CSR services to another company (Convergys, IIRC), so that might not be the correct ending for the email addy anymore, but if you request the CSR to email you a confirmation of your call, you’ll then get their email address. This is really handy if you happen to get one of the CSRs who actually knows what they’re doing. You’ll never be able to reach them by phone again, but if you’ve got their email addy, they’ll probably be willing to help you. I bet, however, if you call up SPCS, and very politely explain to them what happened and that you’re going to be cancelling your service because of it, they’ll transfer you to the Rentention Department, who again, if you’re as nice as pie to them, will be more than happy to cut you a sweet deal on your air time service.

[LibrarySpy]

Mtgman, thanks for your kindness. I feel no angst about the text messages, just a sense of lemming-like bewilderment. I just figured, while GaWd was offering his expertise I’d take advantage of it.

[GaWd]

@Rysler

I just figured, while GaWd was offering his expertise I’d take advantage of it.

…and of course I was a total letdown.

Sam

[Mtgman]

@Lightnin'

That was a convenient lack of recall. How often do you suppose that sort of thing happens? And besides- if they “forget” to mention to me that I’m agreeing to a new contract, then, in my view, I didn’t agree to no fuckin’ contract.

Your view is probably actionable. If Sprint can not produce a recording or a signed contract for the current agreement then you can probably exercise a clause from the Terms and Conditions of your contract. A copy of Sprint’s Advantage Agreement references these T&Cs. If you open a dispute on the change to your account which created a new service plan then you may be able to terminate your service without penalty or return to a non-term contract(month to month).

@Lightnin'

A new phone number should NOT be a “major change”. They certainly didn’t present it as such- it took them less than five minutes to do it, and they didn’t say anything about how big a change it was. Hell, I didn’t even HAVE to do it- I could’ve kept using the Texas number. If I’d known that they’d slam me with another contract (or charge me ten bucks a month thereafter), I would’ve just kept the damn number. Now, unfortunately, it’s too late- they won’t just change it back.

A new number, especially crossing such a large geographic area, is indeed a major change. It is a major change which happens frequently enough that automation and processes have been put in place to make it happen reliably and quickly, but it is still a major change. Going from no phone at all to a new phone with a new number and a new plan at a Sprint store only takes a few minutes as well, but it clearly is a major change.

I’m not sure they can’t change it back, but it is possible the old number has been re-issued to another customer by now. If changing the number back would be acceptable to you then you could ask a CSR about it. In general you can’t request a number which is from outside your home area though. There are lots of technical reasons for this which I can go into if you are interested, but the bottom line is it just doesn’t work that way.

@Lightnin'

Because they didn’t say, “Sorry, but you agreed to this when you signed the original contract six years ago,”, and instead relied upon, “The computer won’t let us change your number without automatically signing you up for another year, sorry nobody bothered to tell you when you first called”, I’m now looking for another provider.

This is clearly your right, and I did exactly the same thing when Southwestern Bell screwed me by silently extending my contract on the first cell phone I ever owned.(BASTARDS!) But you still have other options. If you contest the change then Sprint will need to prove you signed up for a renewal. If too much time has passed(generally 30 days since the invoice on which the change occurred) then this can get ugly, but you’ve got a decent case to get this change(contract re-up, not number change) backed out.

Again, I’m willing to do whatever I can to help sort this out. Drop me a line, my email is public. If you just want the contract nulified so you can cancel in March then that’s what we’ll work towards. If you’re generally happy with the service(price, connection, voice quality, etc) and would be ok with staying with Sprint if the paperwork could be straightened out, then we can work towards that end as well. I’m not sure that the end state you’re looking for, no term contract, changed number, is possible, but I’ll do what I can.

Rysler:

Enjoy,
Steven

[Tuckerfan]

@Mtgman

I’m not sure they can’t change it back, but it is possible the old number has been re-issued to another customer by now. If changing the number back would be acceptable to you then you could ask a CSR about it. In general you can’t request a number which is from outside your home area though.

IIRC, the number can’t be reassigned for a period of 60 days or so (it’s determined by Federal law, not company policy). However, it’s a royal PITA to get it back. If you really want it back, call early on a Saturday morning (SPCS call centers usually open at 6 AM CT), immediately ask for a supervisor, because the schmuck answering the phone can’t help you with this (trust me), explain the situation to the supes, and then expect to wait a loooong period of time while they contact the IT department, explain the situation to them and then get them to change it back on their end. You’ll then have to reprogram your phone and all will be well. Maybe. If you can’t call early on a Saturday, then call early on a Sunday. Otherwise, you can expect at least an hour’s wait once you finally get the supes to agree to your request.

Also, it was fairly easy for us to set up a phone with another area code than the one that a person lived in. We most often did this for people who lived/worked in a different area code than where they could expect the majority of their calls from. This saved the person calling them from lots of long distance charges. Of course, if there were no numbers available in the area code they wanted, then they were SOL.

[Tapioca_Dextrin]

@World Eater

Biggest crooks ever.

Enron big, or just your run-of-the-mill everyday multinational evil greedy bastard crooks?

[Mtgman]

@Tuckerfan

IIRC, the number can’t be reassigned for a period of 60 days or so (it’s determined by Federal law, not company policy). However, it’s a royal PITA to get it back. If you really want it back, call early on a Saturday morning (SPCS call centers usually open at 6 AM CT), immediately ask for a supervisor, because the schmuck answering the phone can’t help you with this (trust me), explain the situation to the supes, and then expect to wait a loooong period of time while they contact the IT department, explain the situation to them and then get them to change it back on their end. You’ll then have to reprogram your phone and all will be well. Maybe. If you can’t call early on a Saturday, then call early on a Sunday. Otherwise, you can expect at least an hour’s wait once you finally get the supes to agree to your request.

That’s true. I was hedging my bets because the OP didn’t give any specific dates/times in his post. He said he moved “recently” and changed the number “a couple weeks after the move” but no definite note on how long ago that was. For a big life event like a move it can be considered recent in common parlance for probably up to six months or so. That’s about how long it takes to really get settled in a new place, especially a state-to-state move. If it was less than 60 days ago your number is probably open(there is one type of number change that is 30 days IIRC, but I’m fuzzy on that end of it, I’m not a CSR).

@Tuckerfan

Also, it was fairly easy for us to set up a phone with another area code than the one that a person lived in. We most often did this for people who lived/worked in a different area code than where they could expect the majority of their calls from.

True, but the presumption there is that they would actually be in the calling area they are requesting a number for during a good portion of the time. This is not the case with the OP. A request for someone with a permanent residence in LA for a NY-based phone number may be physically/logically possible, but there will be strong resistance to it within the company because it causes extra stress on the network to recognize that even though the dialed number indicates a NY phone it really has to forward all that traffic all the way across the country to LA. Once the network is fully packet switched this won’t be such a problem, but at the moment this may require two cross-country circuits to be tied up during those calls. The company is, understandably, reluctant to set someone up with this being the norm for their service.

Enjoy,
Steven

[World_Eater]

@GaWd

I don’t know what your deal was with AT&T, but I don’t understand why some consumers have a hard time dealing with the nature of contracts, how they affect them, why they affect them, and why they are in place. Maybe my experience in law and business allows me to understand and accept these nuances better than most consumers, I don’t know.

Whatever it is, I encourage more consumers to understand their contracts with providers, and accept them as the way of things going forward.

Sam

Actually it was being precisely aware of my contract that allowed me to call their bullshit. I was fully aware of my rights and that my contract had expired a few months ago. I had called them up because I wasn’t happy with the service. I said “look I’m thinking about porting my number over to a different company because of XYZ. They have plans for X amount of money and such and X amount of coverage. Do you offer anything similar?” Now instead of telling me what new plans existed to possibly persuade me to stay, what do they do? Yep, switch me over to customer retention. I repeat my query to them, and right from the get go they’re pulling my chain. “Oh I have to double check, you still might be under contract” “The computer that does that is down right now, try back in a few days” “a supervisor will have to check that out for you, but none are available, try back in a few days”. Any scummy stunt these assholes can pull just to delay me. Perhaps I’ll forget to call back and just stay with them? Or I’ll say, shit I don’t want to wait on hold again for an hour, fuck it, AT&T ain’t that bad? :rolleyes:

Well they got the wrong guy. Customer retention asshole was telling me that when I INQUIRED a few months ago about increasing my data limit, whoops it looks like the rep may have :rolleyes: “run it through”. IF that’s the case, he orally shat, then a new contract (2 year natch) would have kicked in. Of course this would take some investigation, but due to the Topeka office being closed at the moment there was “nothing he could do at this time” :rolleyes: [sup]100[/sup] He advised to “try back at a later date”. I replied with some white hot vitriol that would have made Joe Pesci blush, and then laid into the guy. Produce a written or oral record of me agreeing to my new contract or shove it blah blah blah. I told them I would call my bank and make sure they never get a dime from me, no matter what they do. If they wanted to try and screw my credit I would take “sadistic pleasure” in raising the biggest stink possible. I would dedicate the rest of my life to exposing their fraud to the masses, etc etc. I have this speech down by now, I probably use it once every month or so on the cable/gas/electric guys. Anyhoo I wrapped it up by telling them that I had been willing to stay, just the reception in my particular neighborhood was bad. I told them that instead of losing a guy who would have still told everyone to go AT&T, they now have a guy who sits here typing about them for half an hour when he should be working. I told him to think about this when he’s on the unemployment line in a few weeks.

I’ve switched to sprint, and am happily locked in a new 2 year contract.

This was almost as good as when Cablevision fucked with me.

[World_Eater]

@Tapioca Dextrin

Enron big, or just your run-of-the-mill everyday multinational evil greedy bastard crooks?

I look at their logo and think Unicron. Take that as you will.

[GaWd]

@World Eater

Actually it was being precisely aware of my contract that allowed me to call their bullshit.

I wasn’t referring to you…I was just expressing my frustration.

Well they got the wrong guy. Customer retention asshole was telling me that when I INQUIRED a few months ago about increasing my data limit, whoops it looks like the rep may have :rolleyes: “run it through”.

:eek:

You’re fucking kidding, right? Now that shit is scummy. Re-upping a customer when they make changes to their service is one thing-the customer ought to know their contract. Renewing a customer’s contract for calling in and *inquiring *about their service though? WTF?

AT&T are scum, it seems. Not that I doubted your word-most MNCs are scum.

Sam