Star Trek Into Darkness Seen it thread. Spoilers to follow

[cmyk]

@Sampiro

I saw it with a friend of mine whose two biggest complaints were:

1- Cut the apron. We all love Leonard Nimoy, but it’s time to move out of the original series’s basement.

2- They’re in free fall- they’re going to be weightless anyway.

1- It was a fun, unexpected cameo, which was obvious, but if you can get Nimoy, you use Nimoy. He’s readily available for advice, helping to pull all the vulcans to rebuild a new home. Wouldn’t you agree it was only logical to contact the only person alive who would probably know something about Khan. The scene was to resolve Spock’s dilemma of whom to trust, from the best person to trust.

2- they’re also should be weightless in space, or stuck to the rear of the ship if ace rating. The ship’s artificial gravity was still operational (the real beef should be, why isn’t the ship compensating for orientation, or rather, artificial gravity on board has its acceleration vector perpendicular to the ships decks, no matter what inertial forces the ship undergoes during typical space travel, it’s canceled out perfectly by the artificial gravity.

But don’t blame this movie. Every incarnation of Trek shows concussions knocking the crew around and their instruments exploding in sparks and flames. As close as ST is to Hard Science Fiction, it’s not. It’s always been Hard Science-Fantacy, if I can coin a genre. Something for the nerds and geeks to obsess over and retcons the cannon, etc. to fanticize over in a romantic view on the super tech of “What-If” physics, born from camp TV.

If the ship didn’t get knocked around when attacked, or everyone was floating (or walking around in the floor) as the Enterprise was falling to Earth, not only would it feel wrong and seem jarring, but then everyone would then be complaint that the ship has artificial gravity, why are they floating — or, the ship has artificial gravity, and it’s tumbling as it fall, why aren’t they tumbling with it?

[insert infinite retcons or fanwank explanation here].

ST = Hard Science Fantacy.

SW = Science Fantasy.

2001: ASO = Hard Science Fiction.

@Zebra

OK, now just watch the next two. Star Trek III and Star Trek IV.

Trust me.

Not so fast! While set up in WoK, the Genesis Project in III was really weak, lazy, gringe-worthy writing, a disappointing follow up to WoK.

Star Trek IV is Kickass. 2nd to only WoK. And, gasp! They used… Time travel to the exact year the movie was released, violating a directive to resolve the vague, threat.

Time Travel is a beloved fixture in Science Fantacy, and its all over the franchise. More on this point later…

@montag01

…Why in these movies does Starfleet have no presence at all around Earth? There ought to be hundreds of ships in the area–hell, maybe even thousands. But two Federation ships slug it out on Earth’s doorstep and no one seems to know?

Is everyone on Earth basically invincible now, since Khan’s blood can cure almost anything? Is that being kept a secret? Is it only Khan’s blood, or do all the enhanced humans have magic blood (if so, they wouldn’t have needed to take Khan alive)?..

Good point on no real military “border control”. But the fleet was gutted/devastated by Nemo in the first film.

Perhaps Kirk will be growing a goatee in the next film… :eek:

I wholeheartedly agree the alternate timeline was a great move for the reboot.

For me, I love seeing how the original crew came together differently because of how the time travel screwed it up in subtle or large ways. At the same time, the chemistry is almost dead on with the cast, and keeps us guessing if or what will manifest from how it played out in the old timeline; while surprised if the timeline differs for bad or worse.

And I’m confused here. Is mostly everyone thinking this was a Wrath of Khan remake?

If so, it’s not. Certainly a crafted nod to WoK, but this was the introduction. Khan hasn’t begun Wrathing yet. I loved the reversals, in the same way BTTF 3 does with BTTF 1.

[B.Serum]

I was gobsmacked that they had a terrorist fly a spacecraft into the buildings of a major American city killing thousands of people. And then didn’t bother addressing it for the duration of the movie. (As has been mentioned upthread, it’s all about Kirk.)

I’m not a “Everything changed after 9/11!!!” person by any stretch of the imagination, but this seemed to capitalize on a national disaster for cheap spectacle.

That said, I don’t know anyone else who even cares about that scene to even bring it up in any review or online discussion, so I’m clearly an oversensitive nutcase with his undies in a bunch over nothing. But I sure as hell would be uncomfortable if I was watching that movie in a theater sitting next to someone who lost a loved one on that day.

[jackdavinci]

@B.Serum

I was gobsmacked that they had a terrorist fly a spacecraft into the buildings of a major American city killing thousands of people. And then didn’t bother addressing it for the duration of the movie. (As has been mentioned upthread, it’s all about Kirk.).

He was a villain but not really a terrorist in the usual sense, and that was more of a crash landing during a battle than an attack, and America doesn’t exist any more. It’s more like collateral damage.

Even if the parallels were closer, this is 250 years in the future after we’ve achieved world peace, solved homelessness and poverty, and met goddamned aliens. 9/11 is a distant memory. Oh and there was world war three. That probably made 9/11 shrink a bit in perspective too.

Plus, it was addressed, that was the whole point of Kirk’s speech at the end.

[Harvey_The_Heavy]

@Lightray

The only annoying plot hole that brought me out of the moment was the mischaracterization of old Spock. All his talk of “destiny” was highly illogical, and I don’t buy that he’d vow to never reveal all the preventable bad stuff he knows from his history because “destiny”.

I’m telling myself that Old Spock won’t tell stuff to New Spock, but he was debriefed by Starfleet. How else did Adm. Marcus find the Botany Bay? And how will they stop Nomad if anyone other than Kirk finds it?

And was it just me, or did anyone else think of Godfather III when Khan shot up the conference? Or do most people never think of that movie?

[Raguleader]

@B.Serum

I was gobsmacked that they had a terrorist fly a spacecraft into the buildings of a major American city killing thousands of people. And then didn’t bother addressing it for the duration of the movie. (As has been mentioned upthread, it’s all about Kirk.)

If you’re talking about plowing the Vengeance into San Francisco, that was the climax of the film, and Kirk is speechifying over it at a memorial service two scenes later during the film’s denouement. Did you pick this moment to hit the bathroom or what?

If you’re talking about Khan’s laying into the conference room with the gunship to gun down all of the admirals and captains, that didn’t kill thousands of people. A few dozen, tops, the most important among them (as concerns the cast billing order) being Admiral Pike, Kirk’s surrogate father figure. So yeah, it is kind of all about Kirk at that point, but then the whole point of the movie being that Kirk tends to think that way, and that it will cost him and those under him dearly if he doesn’t get a sense of perspective.

[Grumman]

@Lightray

I don’t think that Spock was supposed to be so close to Kirk, so much as he was already on the edge and traumatized by losing his homeworld (and mom!) that he basically couldn’t stand one more loss. Even if it was his pet sehlat. Or Kirk.

Or Kirk? The guy that didn’t even wait until his mother’s corpse was cold before taunting Spock about it?

[Raguleader]

Yeah, but they teamed up and killed the guy who killed Spock’s mother. And probably went to an Orion stripclub after the credits. They totally had time for some male bonding before the next movie (about a year in between, right?)

[mlees]

@cmyk

Good point on no real military “border control”. But the fleet was gutted/devastated by Nemo in the first film.

Nemo? The Disney fish?

[B.Serum]

@jackdavinci

He was a villain but not really a terrorist in the usual sense, and that was more of a crash landing during a battle than an attack, and America doesn’t exist any more. It’s more like collateral damage.

Even if the parallels were closer, this is 250 years in the future after we’ve achieved world peace, solved homelessness and poverty, and met goddamned aliens. 9/11 is a distant memory. Oh and there was world war three. That probably made 9/11 shrink a bit in perspective too.

Plus, it was addressed, that was the whole point of Kirk’s speech at the end.

There was a scene where Khan told the computer to aim it at Starfleet headquarters. That was deliberate.

I wasn’t talking about the fictional people 250 years in the future, I’m talking about the actual people watching the movie who lived the event 12 years ago.

I thought the speech at the end was a memorial for Captain Pike (what with the coffin with the Federation flag and the “He had this Captain’s Oath” thing.)

[Speak_to_me_Maddie]

@mlees

Nemo? The Disney fish?

Or Verne’s mysterious sea captain who commands an advanced vessel filled with futuristic technology.

Not sure if **cmyk **was an intentional comparison or if it was a typo. Either way it worked.

[Lightray]

@Grumman

Or Kirk? The guy that didn’t even wait until his mother’s corpse was cold before taunting Spock about it?

At the instigation of Old Spock. New Spock, with his profession of logic*, should logically blame Old Spock for setting that up, yet New Spock is still content to follow Old Spock’s advice without complaint.

• Again, it’s quite apparent that New Spock is emoting all over the place in this movie, so his claims of holding to logic don’t really hold up to scrutiny.

[emarkp]

@Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela

Can anyone explain to me why Chris Hemsworth’s name appears in the credits of ‘Into Darkness’? ‘Star Trek 2009’, I understand - he played Kirk’s father; but when did he appear in ‘Into Darkness’?

I believe when Kirk was coming out of his death coma we heard voice overs that included his parents.

[Raguleader]

@emarkp

I believe when Kirk was coming out of his death coma we heard voice overs that included his parents.

Listen for “You want me to put the hammer down?!”

[SenorBeef]

@B.Serum

I’m not a “Everything changed after 9/11!!!” person by any stretch of the imagination

…

But I sure as hell would be uncomfortable if I was watching that movie in a theater sitting next to someone who lost a loved one on that day.

Actually, I find it really refreshing that this scene went without much faux outrage or offense in public. Maybe we’ve finally pulled our heads out of our asses about 9/11. We’re about 11 years, 9 months too late on that one, but maybe we’re finally there.

Anyway, movie was dumb. Yes, summer action movies don’t have to be smart, but why can’t they be? Is anything lost by having a good story with a good script with plenty of action? Why do they have to be so dumb?

I’m always taken out of the moment in these movies because it seems like the actors are doing an impression, almost a parody impression of the actors who played the original crew. I guess the guy who plays spock is pretty alright.

Was Damon Lindelof involved in this project? That guy is on a one man mission to dumbify the shit out of everything.

I’m not usually the type to be hypercritical of movies but if I had a notepad while I was watching it I could’ve written down at least 70 or 80 plot holes. A lot have been mentioned here.

The 72 torpedos thing drove me nuts throughout since it was such a big plot point. “Okay, Kirk, we have super long range prototype stealth torpedos that can take out Khan surgically without the Klingons knowing, we need you to get to the edge of their territory and then launch” “Ok, got it. We’ll be ready to load the torpedo” “Um, torpedos actually. 72 of them” “Why do we need 72 torpedos to make a surgical strike against one guy?” “Well, uh.. I… just… they’re mysterious torpedos” “So are we supposed to launch all 72 torpedos at one spot, or…?”

It would’ve been more interesting if the torpedos were actually a rogue plan by Robocop to conduct a first strike against the Klingon homeworld using Khan as a flimsy excuse. I mean using conventional boom booms, blow them up in a sneak attack. Launching 72 superhumans with no particular beef with the Klingons who won’t know what the fuck is going on when they wake up is actually a pretty weird and shitty first strike.

Why did Khan even transport himself to the Klingon system anyway?

I actually liked Cumberbatch a lot as Khan. I thought he could plausibly play the role of being smarter and outthinking everyone. Which is a shame that they never actually used him for that. Did he ever do anything clever in the movie? There were never any ruses, any mind games, any mental battle at all with Kirk. Just a lot of fist fights. Waste of a character.

The movie hit people over the head with plot points and exposition like 19 different times. Random example, when Spock is starting to get emotional over Kirk’s death, and Kirk asks him how he shuts off his emotions, Spock doesn’t just lose it, showing the audience that he can’t really keep it in check, he has to say “I… CAN’T… I’M… FAILING… IN CASE THAT WASN’T CLEAR… CAUSE I’M A VULCAN… BUT LIKE… EMOTIONAL RIGHT NOW… SEE… EVERYONE GET IT?”

So clumsy, so contemptuous of its audience. I don’t know how these new Star Trek movies get universally loved by the public. I’m totally all for making star trek less geeky but it’s almost as if the general public is trying to praise the series for stripping out anything ambitious or smart about itself.

Never understood why 100 million dollar movies won’t spend a hundredth of a percent of their budget on a good writer.

[Raguleader]

Incidentally, when Spock said “I’m failing”, I misheard it as “I’m feeling”

Which my mind translated into “I HAZ FEELS”

[SenorBeef]

I actually thought he said “I’m feeling” as I watched the movie, which made it even more pathetic. “Spock, how do you not feel?” “:~( I AM FEELING” was some stellar dialogue.

Reading the thread, others said it’s supposed to be “I’m failing” which makes it slightly less retarded but still completely unnecessarily stating the obvious because you think you have the dumbest audience ever.

[Steophan]

Vulcans are not supposed to not have emotions, so there’s no doubt that, at all times, Spock was feeling. What they are supposed to do is not act on the emotions.

[Nzinga_Seated]

@Steophan

Vulcans are not supposed to not have emotions, so there’s no doubt that, at all times, Spock was feeling. What they are supposed to do is not act on the emotions.

Right. But a plot point in this film was that Spock had been consciously training himself not to feel. He explained to Uhuru and Kirk that the death of his planet had fucked with him in a way that he had started to bury his feelings. At that moment, with Kirk dying in front of him…he was unable to do so. I thought that was pretty touching, considering he had managed to bury his feelings at the prospect of his own death, but couldn’t for his friend. But I admit I’m a soft touch for the emotional manipulation of movie directors.

I also heard it as “feeling” and now I need to find out which word was used.

[SenorBeef]

But, you know, if they had a script worthy of a precocious middle schooler’s English class assignment, they could show Spock being unable to control his emotions without actually verbalizing BUT I CAN’T NOT FEEL AT THIS POINT, REMEMBER HOW WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT EARLIER IN THE MOVIE. Just in case your audience totally forgot who Spock was and what his deal was and what had already happened in the movie. Because, you know, they’re the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet apparently.

[gotpasswords]

As the E was in its slo-mo slump towards Earth and people are being tossed around and falling through the atrium, how is it that everything in Sickbay stayed put? Not so much as a single hair on the Tribble moved.

I’m just amazed that they were able to use the Naional Ignition Facility’s target chamber for the engine room set. Ten years ago, going to Livermore and asking about it would probably elicit an armed response, but now it’s a movie set.