Who here thinks "The Wrath of Khan" was the best Star Trek movie, and why?

I think it was the tension between Ricardo Montalban and Shatner’s characters. There just seemed to be real meat to it.
Plus, Montalban just looked great in that chest-baring costume.

What I really appreciated was that Khan was smart. And the only reason he lost was lack of experience. Hubris played a part too but had Khan fought more battles in space he would have won.

I agree, although it’s not like being the best Star Trek movie is a tremendous accomplishment. It’s a pretty weak field, if you get right down to it. However, along side First Contact, Wrath of Khan is the only ST movie I’d consider buying.

I agree with all of the reasons already given, and would add two more:

The sense of continuity with the TV show. The one thing ST fans are always clamoring for is more continuity, and yet no one at Paramount seems to ever listen.

It’s the only space combat movie I can think of that doesn’t rely on a bunch of physics-defying fighters. Instead, we get a good old fashioned battleship duel: two big, stately ships standing off and slugging at each other until one goes down.

The fact that not only was Khan an enemy equal to Kirk, he had some real depth to him. He wasn’t “evil for the sake of evil” or some nebulous superentity that we have to hold hands and commune with to prove our worth.

No deus ex pseudoscience, and no freakin’ time travel!

Plus, the ending was incredible. I cried.

The movie’s premise wasn’t original, but you can’t really go wrong with Moby Dick and Captain Ahab. There’s no effort in this movie (as there were in so many other movies and post-TOS episodes) to introduce elements of sanctimony and moralizing. Khan hates Kirk, Khak wants to kill Kirk, Kirk kills Khan instead. If Khan had been chasing Picard or Janeway, there would have been a lot of speechifying and some contrived way for Khan to get caught in his own trap (i.e. the end of the space battle in Star Trek: Insurrection shows the bad guys getting toasted when their own torpedo touches off some massive explosion, and not through direct hostile action from the Enterprise, even though the *Enterprise[/]i] would have been perfectly justified to defend itself).

The themes of the Genesis Project (large-scale genetic engineering: its promise and dangers) is still relevant today, if not more so than in 1982.

There was no ridiculously powerful alien entity, as in V’Ger (ST1), the whale probe (ST4) and “God” (ST5).
There were no “magical” elements, as in the Nexus (ST7) or the planet that grants immortality (ST9).
And there was no time travel, as in ST4 and ST8.

Above all, the story in ST2 is straightforward, honest, with no deus ex machina trickery or laziness, well-paced and well-acted. We get to see a Trek character literally scream in frustrated rage (“KHAAAAAANNN!”) and it’s not because some alien telepath is controlling him; it’s an honest and perfectly reasonable reaction. The NextGen and later characters were so bloodless and boring, it’s hard to imagine any of them (except for Patrick Stewart, possibly) getting so incredibly pissed off.

There is violence in the movie, but it isn’t of the bloodless “we lost another three nameless crewmen, Captain Janeway” variety. The violence of the initial Kobayashi Maru scenario foreshadowed just how nasty this movie would get, including the dramatic deaths of Peter Preston and, eventually, Spock. The crew of the Enterprise-E also suffered losses in First Contact but those deaths were of characters the audience cared little about and the main cast remained untouched by their loss.

And as Osiris pointed out, Khan lost not because of some technobabble nonsense, and not because he arrogantly got caught in his own trap, but simply becuase Kirk was a better, more experienced starship commander. I’ve always disliked the notion that intelligence alone was enough to gaurantee success, and unfortunately, the TNG audience was force-fed this message every time Wesley’s science project saved the day. Khan’s suicide wasn’t just a “you’ll never take me alive” gesture. He fully expected to snare the crippled Enterprise, and was willing to kill himself just to take Kirk with him. Have we ever seen another Trek villian show such dedicated hatred? Usually they just act like idiots at the crucial moment.

I also happen to be a big Saavik fan, and Alley’s performance was thankfully free of any stupidity (the fact that Saavik finds humans to be vaguely icky seems perfectly apropos).

Sidebar, re Saavik: I have a photograph of myself at a convention standing next to Robin Curtis and I’m doing the “fingers behind the head” gag to her, although with the Vulcan salute.

David Marcus as the long-lost son has no soap-opera feel to it, i.e. no big heavy-duty dramatic revelation “But he’s your SON! (dum-dum-DUMMMMM)”. Just Kirk saying “I did what you wanted; I stayed away.” It sounds vaguely like a bitter divorce condition, which is something else the audience can relate to.

Above all, it’s a story about revenge and death and rebirth, classic timeless themes that can entertain an audience without lecturing them. The final battle is slow-paced but dramatic, like two submarines going at it, and the ending is heart-rending without being manipulative in the least.

For the longest time I’ve wavered among II, IV, and VI as my favorite Trek film. The stuff I’ve read in this thread has been pretty persuasive though. My needle now points at II.

Hey, how did all those italics end up in my post?

KHAAAAAANNNNNN!!!

I liked it as it seemed to live up to the camp of the TV series and not the almost put on “look we’re serious sci-fi” of the original film.

And did you see Montalban’s chest? It was friggin huge! He must’ve struggled to get through doorways.

I liked it because the story was staightforward, without hype, doubletalk, and pretension. The idea of alien creatures that just happen to enable the villain to control your mind was pretty hokey, and Kirk’s actions in not raising shields for so long seemed pretty dumb, but, allowing these, the story was pretty good.

With its ship-to-ship battle under limited circumstances, it resembled more closely than any other Star Trek movie (or episode, even) the “Horatio Hornblower in Space” premise that Roddenbery was supposedly after.
Just for the record, I like Star Trek IV about as well, but for different reasons.
I think having Nicholas Meyer (“The Seven Percent Solution”) around for both made a big difference. Having Harve Bennett around obviously did, too, but who woulda guessed it, having seen his previous work? Some of it ended up on MST3K, for cryin’ out loud!

Khan was just the sort of villain I can really get behind, someone with a real, understandable motive for his troublemaking.

OTOH, you just have to love the first TNG movie since Bill Shatner dies not just once, but twice. I’ll pay six bucks for that anytime.

I’ll jump on this bandwaggon.
Being as I havn’t seen the last two ST movies, I can’t say a thing about them. But, it was WoK that made me a Trekker. (Unfortunatly, Voyager turned me right off.)
Like the above posters,I also agree that the ship to ship battle was well done.But what did it for me was the double whammy of watching not only my beloved Enterprise bite the dust, but also our beloved first officer. I was in mourning for 10 minutes. I know I wasn’t the only one who walked away from that theatre in tears.

Too bad thay had to ruin it by bringing Spock back. Bastages

It moved quickly, made sense (within its own inner logic) had great characterizations, real human drama, It was Shatner’s best performance, the first real battle scenes in Trek that still hold up and Ricardo Montalban gets to steal the show.

I also like the fact that there are characters who say the obvious to the two lead antagonists. Saavik telling kirk that if any ship doesn’t communicate it is regulation that the sheilds should be raised and Jochim telling Khan that it is unwise to enter the nebula as they will lose what advantage they have. It is only the ego of the two men that prevent them from listening to the suggestions.

The DVD just recently released brought back my love of this movie.


“You klingons have killed my bastard son”

Bryan Ekers, well written!

One other thing that makes this movie the best is the score by James Horner. Well concieved and executed, I particularly love the music which begins somewhere shortly before the Enterprise heads for the nebula (I think) and continues on for the duration of the battle. It fits seemlessly with the dialogue and action.
Re: Montalban’s chest

It’s a fake.

I also very much agree that the crewman’s death in sickbay adds a lot to the movie. Makes me get all misty eyed:
*
P. Preston: Give the word, admiral.

Kirk: The word is given.

Scotty: He stayed at his post, when the other trainees ran!
*
Chokes me up every time.

Well done indeed, Bryan. One thing you don’t mention, though its implied, is that it’s also a meditation on aging and the choices one makes to dwell on the past or learn from it. This ties into Kirk’s experience–ST2 seemed to be the adventure that Kirk was training for all his life. The film is surprisingly touching because it makes the most of our investments in the characters without taking that investment for granted. Plus, the designs (costumes, art direction) are an improvement over the first film and the film is often quite scary with some deaths (before Spock’s) that are genuinely shocking.

The only film that comes close to WoK is First Contact, which also has the Ahab motif and a scene (with the tommy gun) where Picard really lets it rip. With Alfre Woodard, James Cromwell, & Alice Krige in tow, I’d argue it’s the best acted of the series (and the closest to also having genuine shocks and violence). Interestingly, it also capitalizes on an old nemesis of the captain’s, removing the need for lots of clunky exposition and giving the crew a little breathing room to expand on their characters.

They’re the only 2 ST films I’d own.

I’m getting really flurking sick of this. I started not to even come into this thread because I knew someone was going to start that crap up again. But, this being the Straight Dope, I’ll voice my objections in the simplest possible terms appropriate to the venue:

Cite?

Listen… I ain’t the kind of Star Trek fan who gets all red-faced hysterical when someone points out just how long Bill Shatner’s been wearing a corset, or anything like that. I just hate stoopid rumors, about whatever subject.

Nick Meyer, ST II’s director and (uncredited) screenwriter, has been quoted more than once (most recently on the DVD commentary track of the ST II director’s cut) on this subject. He has two things to say about it:

  1. More people ask him if if Montalban’s pecs in ST II are real than ask any other question.

  2. They’re real.

Unless you can find me a photo of ol’ Ricardo being fitted for foam rubber titties, I think that pretty much settles it…

I got a cite for you, but in the opposite direction. Mr. Spock himself says that Khan’s chest is real:

Khan, of course, maintains that his chest is indeed that large:

I stand corrected :slight_smile: I thought I remembered reading somewhere that it wasn’t real, but perhaps I was just confusing Nimoy’s statement in my head. Continue salivating over the well developed pecs, Montalban fans!

and KneadToKnow, taking this whole Montalban’s chest thing a little personally, no? Perhaps a few decades on Alpha Ceti V would cool you off!

[Shatner]
Get a life!
[/Shatner]

[sub]the previous lines were all intended in good fun.[/sub]

Well, I do love Wrath of Khan, but I think Undiscovered Country will always be my favorite.

It’s got:

  • Timely alegory of collapse of USSR/Klingon Empire
  • Spock loosening up: “Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end.”
  • Shakespeare quoting, scene chewing klingon Chris Plummer going toe to toe with Kirk
  • Captain Sulu
  • Better comic relief than even the Voyage Home. (Uhura’s klingon lessons, the dinner party, crewman Dax’s feet, dueling Kirks, etc.)
  • A real sense of scope, with the Gulag, the praxis explosion, inside the klingon ships, the trial.
  • Zero-g blood

And my personal favorite, the mindmeld. I think the “nitpicker book” guy was the one who pointed it out to me, that here we see that Spock was holding back in every other mindmeld. Here, he’s betrayed by his apprentice, and the fate of the federation rests on the information she has, so he doesn’t hold back, he breaks her. Great scene.

Even I have to say, Bryan Ekers, although I have disageed with you in the past I heartily agree with your analysis of the Star Trek movies.

I just wonder why they can’t seem to learn from this and apply the same standard to all ST efforts.