Re: the quarry–my shovel brigade comment was just a lame joke. I know that’s what it was supposed to be, there’s even a sign to that effect. (But I’ve been to Riverside, and I didn’t see anything like that.)
Besides, why have the Iowa location at all, since (in this timeline) Kirk isn’t even born there?
They had 130 years to warn Romulus about the supernova. No need to reveal themselves too soon.
I don’t know enough about Romulan psychology to answer your question about loyalty.
If they had destroyed Vulcan right away, they couldn’t have shown it to Spock, could they?
Yes, he is.
I don’t mind the canon being trashed. I wish it had been trashed even more, to the point where it wouldn’t be certain that Kirk and Spock were destined to be soulmates. I’d be fine with Spock and Kirk having a genuine mutual dislike. Frankly, the notion that no matter how the timeline gets mangled, these two have a destiny together annoys me. Their mirror-universe counterparts were implied to not be the best of buddies, after all.
I can, and I have. I’m sure I’m on record on this board trashing all the recent Trek movies to various degrees (I’m quite fond of savaging Insurrection and Nemesis) but I’ll also cheerfully defend Trek when they do something right. Wrath of Khan remains one of my all-time favourite movies, for example.
You may as well just skip to saying “Yes, he is, infinity plus one” for all it matters.
They were single minded and fanatical. Their world was gone. And, since they’re physiologically Vulcan they feel emotions harder than Humans.
I thought you said you liked STII. Didn’t Khan do the same thing? Marooning people has a long and eminent pedigree.
Not even a little. In fact that’s an outright stupid comparison. Nero’s ship isn’t invulnerable, it’s really tough. And if he blundered into downtown Federationville he’d likely lose. He needed command codes for the defense network. Just because you can’t be bothered to actually watch the movie and listen to the dialogue doesn’t make it bad. It makes your criticism laughable.
In what way?
They were miners, weren’t they? If this was some kind of cult-ship or ultra-elite military unit, maybe… As I figure it, the only reason for the 25-year wait is so James Kirk’s birth would be so dramatic that he was obviously a child of destiny. For some reason, though, this couldn’t be a formative event that happened during his childhood or early adulthood and makes him want to join Starfleet. Nah, he has to be… the star child!!!
Different circumstances. Khan tells Kirk he’s going to sail off and trash the Enterprise and that will be sufficient for him. Khan is satisfied by this. He doesn’t need Kirk to witness the destruction - he knows when to declare and celebrate victory.
Khan had 15 years of misery to sustain his anger in a desperate bid for survival, all the while getting more bitter because “Admiral Kirk never bothered to check on our progress”.
Above all, Khan was not an idiot. Compare this to marooning Spock-prime, in a place where he could easily freeze to death, or get eaten by the local fauna, or make his way to the Federation outpost (why he’s hanging around in a cave instead of heading to this outpost as all possible speed to contact Starfleet and raise the alarm is yet another unexplained plot hole). There’s an excellent chance Spock-prime will be dead before Vulcan gets trashed, and what’s the point of that?
He trashed six Federation starships in a matter of minutes and dozens of Klingon vessels with no apparent damage whatsoever. What movie were you watching?
Yes, exclamation points make your baseless, nitpicking substantive. A half dozen times in this thread you’ve shown that you didn’t even listen to the dialogue from the movie. You *want *to hate the movie, that’s fine. Don’t pretend that you’ve actually though about it.
My guess is he sought shelter from the giant ice spiders.
And he was still afraid of the Federation defenses. What does that tell you?
I tell you what, thought experiment. What can hold a bigger gun, something that has to fly around or something stationary?
No, they (plus the italics, mustn’t forget them) make it sarcastic.
I wanted very much to like this movie, but although there were some likable aspects to it, it wasn’t overall likable enough for me to turn my brain off and just let the plot holes wash over me.
Your standards, obviously, vary.
Yeah, it’d be a shame if after waiting 25 years, Spock-prime didn’t get to see Vulcan go poof at the moment it happened, because he’d either been eaten by an ice-spider or was hiding from same.
That there’s a plot hole. The writers want Nero’s ship to be nigh-unstoppable when it’s trashing faceless supporting characters by the thousands (or billions) and yet have some plot-device reason for them to take Pike out of the way to clear the way for Kirk. I realize “Earth defenses” are kept deliberately vague, but seriously, was the code extracted from Pike a “roll over and play dead” command, because it makes no sense any other way. Are these defenses impressive or not? If not, Nero doesn’t need the code. If so, there should have been at least some token display of resistance, especially against the drill unit itself which as shown in the movie does not require an extremely advanced set of counter-measures. Just have some guys jetpack up to it and blast away with the phasers. Sure, there might be a couple of inept Romulan guards to watch out for, but omelets and eggs, people.
Well, if there were Earth-based batteries capable of firing on ships in orbit, where were they? Are all they all manned by bureaucrats who steadfastly refused to fire because the correct identification code was given?
According to an interview I just saw, “fate” is entirely the point.
Along these lines, Nero did say he spent 25 years plotting his revenge. So there we go. We know what he was up to. I suppose eating and pooping and maintaining and maybe even upgrading the ship might took up some time.
As a mining ship, I’m guessing they didn’t have a temporal physicist onboard, and their computers may not have been designed to be a big help there.
Nero already fucked up time by killing Kirk’s father. He’s lucky he didn’t accidently disappear himself in the process. In any event, if he wants to get revenge on the same Spock he came with, best lay really low and try not to fuck up time any more. Who knows what could happen? I’m sure past Romulus was not at all happy about a Romulan ship breaking the truce and wiping out a Federation vessel, and if Nero showed up and took responsibility who’s to say the Romulans would greet him with open arms? They may not want the time stream fucked with.
Who’s to say Nero isn’t constantly risking some future temporal police showing up? Maybe he doesn’t understand the difference between changing your own time stream or entering/creating an entirely alternate reality?
He needs to wait for that red matter to show up. It was stated in the movie the technology to use red matter to make black holes also can be used for traveling through time and space. If you can’t make your own RM, it’s best to not mess around too much until Spock shows up with it.
Now, that’s just cruel.
We should also keep in mind that Nero was freaking nuts.
This thread is why people make fun of us.
Actually, as someone upthread said, a tooltip popped out with Starfleet’s insignia. And there you have it.
Also Nero knocked off the Klingons after “a lightning storm was reported in the Neutral Zone.” I’m not a big enough nerd to know if this answers your question, but this is what I heard.
Got it: 12091.
◄12091
to be more exact.
Actually, he said he stayed around to ensure Romulus would never have to yield to the Federation. He needed the Red Matter to do that. His crew seemed OK with that part, including b-holing all Federation worlds.
This to me was a big plot hole. Glad they filled it.
He already had the power to do that. The red matter was technobabble overkill.
I don’t see it. How could he have vaporized a planet with that ship? The most he could’ve done is turned it into swiss cheese.
Then why did you bother to reply? Sauce for the goose, Mr Saavik.