Was anymore more vehement than me in expressing hatred for this movie? Somehow I don’t think so. And even I THINK Quinto did a good job.
Heh… I actually liked Quinto better than Nimoy…
Since personal insults aren’t allowed in this forum and “I know you are, but what am I?” is strongly discouraged, Bryan Ekers and RikWriter are advised to drop this very silly exchange.
I don’t have a problem with someone not liking the film. I have a problem with BE utterly ignoring what was said in the film and pretending there are plot holes where there are none. The movie has plot holes. I freely admit that, but he simply wasn’t listening and is arguing points that aren’t valid. Isn’t this MB about fighting ignorance? 
Dislike the film all you like. Just don’t stamp your feet and make arguments that are based on not listening to the dialogue.
First off I might quibble a percentage point or thirty, but the fact remains that in universe DS9 could fend off any one ship it ever faced. It fought off a Klingon fleet.
And if you ever played Star Fleet Battles you’d know that a Space Station is no joke.
Then it’s a problem solely of your own creation because the plot holes I point out do exist and are major problems in the film’s structure. While I realize the entire premise is a contrivance, I insist that the contrivances not be so utterly obvious and illogical. Why was Spock-prime on the ice-planet where Kirk, running wildly across the landscape to avoid being eaten, could find him? Why does Nero, who has spent 25 years planning this moment of revenge, wanting to savour the moment where Spock will witness the destruction of Vulcan, not want to witness Spock’s witnessing and enjoy the resultant anguish?
This is not a nit-picky imaginary flaw. It represents a major problem in the villain’s motivation and if it can only be explained by “Nero’s insane” then it is bad writing, especially since Nero is not alone - he has a crew. Are they all insane?
Yes, I listened to the film. And I heard this problem, clear as day. If you don’t agree, fine. Get over it, already.
Undercuts but not eliminates. Obviously the analogy to modern and 16th century ships breaks down since modern ships can fire cruise missiles over the horizon.
What we know in film is that Nero’s ship can be destroyed. It is tough but essentially it has a lot of hit points. Ramming it with the Kelvin disabled it long enough that the shuttles were able to get away. Spock was able to blast it with his contemporary space ship and do decent damage, and the Enterprise could finish it off when it was trapped in the black hole.
If you can be shot a hundred times before dying you can enter battles casually. However charging five machine gun nests is a bad idea. The codes let him get close enough that he could destroy the nests before they could shoot at him long.
I assume, that’s certainly what the movie suggested.
In that case, the problem is one of scale - the need to make everything so amazingly gargantuan in an effort to blow the audience away, etc. Of course, this just creates wild inconsistancies (Nero’s ship can take out six Fed starships in under a minute, yet can’t handle the single, presumably far less advanced Kelvin before it completes a kamikaze run).
On reflection, this was also a weakness of Star Trek: The Motion Picture, with everything being so cosmic and 2001-ish. Hopefully if there is a sequel, they’ll go with a smaller-scale more personal drama like Wrath of Khan.
Once again, you’re not listening to the dialogue. From Nero’s point of view for the first battle he had just come back from a mining mission. He saw Spock “let Romulus die” and got sucked into a black hole. Then his vessel gets in a battle minutes later.
Over the next 25 years I expect they optimized the vessel for combat. Replicated quantum torpedoes, generated anti-matter, and took the ship from its primary role as a mining vessel into a primary role war vessel (imagine a 24 year A-Team build montage). No inconsistency there.
I hope that too, I’d like to see some ground scale fights instead of giant super vessels.
Would you please do me the courtesy of ceasing this vacuous incorrect accusation? I’ve more than enough demonstrated that it is untrue.
Yes, a battle that they are casually winning until they take a break to ask the Kelvin captain in person where Spock is (why they think he would know is mystery, as is why they couldn’t simply ask over the radio). Then they kill the hapless captain and yet are surprisingly unable to finish the heavily-damaged Kelvin off. It’s safe to assume that until that conversation, they didn’t know that they’d been throw into the past. That’s fine. But what they do with information and their massive technological advantage is preposterous.
Except in the sense that over that 25 years, they never once reconsidered the idea, not took any steps to curtail the disaster that destroyed Romulus. This argument assumes that for 25 years, they remained so obsessed and focused on this one goal that it never occurred to them to just attack the Federation at will. They’re implausibly driven and yet implausibly patient. I wouldn’t have a problem with this (or at least not as much of one) if the timeframe had been much much shorter, as in they lurked for a month or so waiting for Spock.
Plus there is no indication that they were heavily rebuilding and re-arming over that period. Their ship looks pretty much the same both times (and such a screwy, crazy non-utilitarian design it is, too). In order to explain a flaw in the premise, you have to create new information, including how they managed to rearm and retool without ever going to the contemporary Romulus or apparently anywhere else. That’s a classic sign of bad writing.
I don’t disagree that DS9 is going to take down any one ship that it is likely to encounter being situated where it is in the Alpha Quadrant, but just to nitpick because I am a Trekkie, I’m pretty sure a Borg Cube would kill it dead so long as Admiral Janeway doesn’t happen to be visiting Bajor at the time.
Why would a mining ship have modern cruise missles? Do any have them today? No. Maybe a few might have a machinegun.
Because they are in the Star Trek universe where such weapons are commonplace? You’ve got to worry about Orion pirates, Ferengi strongmen and the random Tholian crystal ship captian that wants to board and mate with your dilithium matrix.
Unless you’re part of a convoy it makes sense to arm vessels that carry expensive cargo… like fancy space ores for instance.
Depends on the generation of cube I’d say. But yeah, since the Borg are the nigh unstoppable fine. I’m sure a Q in a rowboat could defeat it too. But we’re talking about standard TNG Romulan ships here.
Perhaps that’s why I enjoy WOK so much. It’s not a universe saving event, but a battle between two starships.
Of course the real key to disabling a mining ship is to smuggle a xenomorph aboard.
That would’ve been hellacool.
Except that they’re not commonplace. It’s silly to think they’d be commonplace. Even the TrekVerse isn’t that Wild West. But so what? If you enjoyed the movie, you’ll be willing to overlook said holes; if you didn’t, no amount of arguing from those who did will change your opinion of said holes.
Indeed, and the one who wins doesn’t do so by some crazy technobabble fix, but because intelligence doesn’t equal experience.
Of course, that makes acting-Ensign Wesley Crusher and promoting Cadet Kirk to Captain even sillier.
On reflection, I note that while Spock was choking Kirk, not one crew member intervened. I kinda took this to mean that they like Spock and they don’t like Kirk, which makes their instant loyalty and obedience to Kirk even more unlikely.
Nope, you clearly weren’t listening or simply chose to forget several elements. Look upthread if you wants evidence.
The Kelvin did lose that fight you know?
The disaster would take a century to happen. No point in dealing with it now. Nero specifically said that he wanted no Federation to act as a check for Romulan expansion. He needs the Red Matter for that.
And they never explained that Kirk ever used the bathroom either. Where exactly did that apple go? :dubious:
Even if they didn’t do a single thing to upgrade the ship, drilling and practicing for the quarter century would let them use their high tech to best effect. We don’t know what they were doing because we don’t need to know. We know that when they re-appeared they were ready to fight.
Do we have canon that Romulan trade ships aren’t armed? TNG Romulans seemed pretty isolationist and warlike, didn’t they?
Imagine six billion pointy eared Pat Buchanons… you can bet your off-center green blooded heart that they’ll have torpedoes.