Deanna is married to Riker while Lwaxana is a widow, meaning the former *is *Mrs Troi. As to Tam, I brought him up only to highlight the range of abilities inherent in their species. Betazoids were never really highlighted, so we really have no idea what the average is.
It has a twin, T’Kuhl. I guess Delta Vega can be handwaved away as the Terran astronomical name for it.
Any plot hole-filling idea that you have to preface with the phrase “I suspect…” or “I imagine…” is pretty much fanwankery by definition. And just because a logical explanation could exist for a given plot hole means absolutely nothing - in order for it not to be a plot hole, such an explanation must be provided in the movie.
All of your ideas posted in this thread, whether it be Nero “training his crew over 25 years,” or how “all Romulan civilian ships are armed,” or “Nero not wanting to return to Romulus for emotional reasons,” are perfectly reasonable ways to justify the holes in the narrative. But none of them are in the movie. You made them up. That they happen to be fairly logical fanwanks by Trek standards makes no difference - the fact of the matter is that a good writing team would have found a way to put such explanations into the movie in a way that didn’t break the narrative flow.
For example, as I mentioned in my first post, Khan’s motivation for revenge in TWOK hinges on similarly complicated exposition. Rather than ignoring it completely (as Abrams et al did for Nero’s backstory) or “telling, not showing” in the crudest way imaginable (as Abrams et al did for Spock Prime’s backstory), the writers of TWOK found a way to effectively convey that information without killing their own movie’s momentum. They introduce a character that, like the audience, doesn’t know Khan’s history (Captain Terrell), and then put him with a character that does (Chekov). This allows the backstory to be communicated in pieces through the dialogue between Khan and Chekov, while Terrell’s presence neatly explains why Khan is bothering to retell his own story. In addition, the writers use the opportunity to give Montalban some great actorly moments - showing Khan’s menace and anger rather than awkwardly describing it in dialogue. Lastly, the scene segues smoothly into the Ceti eels bit, and thus turns out to be entirely plot-relevant on its own.
Abrams’s writing team apparently picked up on the “revenge is cool and people like it” aspect of TWOK, while completely missing the many, many other elements that make it a classic piece of filmmaking.
Um…no she’s not. If she’s using the “Mrs.” honorific, then she’s surely taken his name, so she’s Mrs. Riker. And if she has kept her own name, she’s probably not using the honorific, so she’s Ms. Troi. Or possibly Commander or Counselor Troi.
Are you suggesting there should have been a scene with Uhura saying, “Why would a mining vessel have such heavy armaments?”
Spock: “Romulan space is an empire made of of disparate species. They often have rebellions and piracy is rife. So carrying weaponry makes sense.”
Yeah, great writing that. 
We know that Star Trek is full of people with unrealistic spaceships stealing things from others. It’s not a fanwank to assume something that makes perfect sense in the narrative. For instance, I believe that there are bathrooms on the ship. I don’t need to see one.
We know that Nero was in space for 25 years. We know he did better in fights after that. What do you think plotting his revenge entails?
And don’t make me whip out my list of plot holes for TWOK. 
Instead of getting into a nerdfight, and hijacking this thread for the next hundred posts, I’ll just say you were unclear as to which Troi you were referring to, and I assumed you were talking about the much more prominent Troi.
I’ll do it, because I’m a dick. Though it’s less a plot hole than a WTF.
Why is Kirk perpetually leaving the conn to SAAVIK? She’s a lieutenant; whereas Sulu, who’s a full commander, is sitting right beside her.
Oh, we weren’t fighting. I just wrote “Mrs. Troi” because, as I said, I have no intention of trying to spell that insane name.
But we might as well continue the nerdfight. It’s not like I haven’t already released thousands and thousands of electric eels into your cities water systems in the hopes that one of them will sting you when you’re next on the toilet. I learned my revenge-taking skills from Nero rather than Khan.
Um, you do live in Nashville, right?
I’m not sure what you mean. The Enterprise was already near Vulcan when it was destroyed. Spock kicked Kirk off and then left towards earth.
That trip evidently took awhile though, as Kirk, Spock & McCoy had time to meet, soup-up a transporter, and catch up to Enterprise doing warp.
Shouldn’t you wait a few years to release the eels?
Also, where is Tuckerfan? Shouldn’t he be frothing at the mouth about this movie?
I’m saying a scene explaining that would have been useful, yes. The fact that you apparently can’t write one well doesn’t mean that nobody could. Again, I refer you to the TWOK scene I described above as an example of how to write exposition without disrupting narrative flow or relying on idiot technobabble.
It doesn’t matter what I think. Anything I come up with would be fanwanking as well. I’m saying that if the filmmakers intended for us to believe that Nero had spent his 25 years in space training his men to be the Ultimate Vendetteers, they should have shown us that. Even a god damn 5 second montage of Nero barking orders while his troops stage a mock battle would have been sufficient. Instead, they gave us nothing. Ergo, plot hole.
Again, the fact that you or I or anybody else other than the writers of the movie can come up with a plausible explanation means nothing. It’s speculation. It’s fanfiction. And unless it’s explained within the movie, it’s a plot hole.
Go for it. I didn’t say that TWOK is perfect. I’m just saying that it’s better-written that Trek 2009. You’re welcome to try to prove otherwise.
Nerdfight meaning nitpicking each other endlessly like **Bryan **and Lobohan, I mean.
I’m a fair bit south of Nashville, but a good friend is in Murfreesboro and the idea of her finding an eel in her toilet bowl is pretty hysterical so, please, go for it.
To be fair, he appears to have given up. I’m just making comments now.
Does he ever do this after Khan shows up? IIRC, Kirk’s in command when the Reliant attacks, and after that, Saavik is either on the away team or sitting at navigation (or whatever the hell that station next to Sulu is). It’s only before Khan’s arrival that Saavik sits in the big chair.
If I’m correct (and I’ll admit my memory may be at fault here), this one doesn’t even require fanwanking - they say over and over again that the Enterprise is on a training cruise, and Saavik is supposed to be learning how to command. We see Saavik “pilot” the ship out of spacedock for that very reason.
No, it’s not a plot hole, not as I understand the term. Nero said “I’ve spent 25 years plotting my revenge.”
There. Not a plot hole. You might not like having to wonder what he was doing day by day for 25 years, but the writers told you what you need to know for it not to be a plot hole.
Do you know how much it costs to feed and house (well, feed and tank) thousands and thousands of electric eels? Admittedly I had them on hand for other purposes, but even so, I’m not made of money.
I think he mostly posts on our lightherted cousin across the way. The counterpart to this thread on domebo is much shorter. I blame myself for repeatedly unleashing electric eels on people over there.
I don’t think you know how this “revenge” thing works. You can’t suggest OTHER PEOPLE for me to wreak my revenge on. I have to reach that illogical conclusion out of my own madness.
He leaves the conn to her when he goes down to Engineering to watch Spock die in agony. And while you can make the point that the worst of the crisis is over at that point, he’s distracted and probably not thinking straight. Simple habit is going to lead to him saying, “Sulu, take the conn,” as he’s known Hikaru for fifteen years and Saavik since the previous Tuesday.
Saavik has the conn out of spacedock (in the sense of directing the helm officer) because Spock is bored and feels like yanking Kirk’s chain.
There’s no danger in the scene, of course, as 60s!Sulu is at the helm, and unlike 09!Sulu knows how to drive.
And the station next to Sulu’s is navigation, technically. But only technically, as it’s clear in the series that you can do either helm or navigation functions from either station, as well as fire weapons, and Sulu and Chekov frequently switch functions. Which actually makes sense when you think about it.
Well, I don’t have the one I wrote up years ago on this computer, but from memory:
[ul]
[li]Checkov knowing Khan. (Easily fanwankable however).[/li][li]Hard time finding a lifeless rock.[/li][li]Reliant doesn’t notice that there is an asteroid field where Ceti Alpha V was and that there is one less planet in the system than their should be.[/li][li]It took months for the Star Fleet Core of Engineers to dig that tunnel… srsly? They have phasers.[/li][li]Beaming down to the Genesis asteroid the coordinates show solid rock. Instead of beaming down a tricorder or communicator to see if they’re going to die, they just beam in.[/li][li]Horrible, “If we do things by the book, ;) HOURS might seem like DAYS ;);).” Yeah, Khan couldn’t see through that.[/li][li]Checkov says, “The put creatures in our ears, to control us.” And then they give them phasers!?![/li][li]The genesis device is stupid.[/li][li]Khan wants to steal a weapon that he can use to destroy a planet. He has one ship, what exactly is he gonna do with that device? His ship can already destroy a helpless world, a TOS ship can lay waste to a planet’s surface.[/li][li]How the fuck does Khan know Klingon proverbs? Did Kirk leave him a radio?[/li][li]The fucking loaders for the photon torpedoes.[/li][li]“Holy shit, the n00b doesn’t know about teh z-axis dood!”[/li][/ul]
There are episodes of Voyager (Voyager!) that are better written than Trek-2009.
Example?
Since I obviously don’t want to go home…
Honestly, I don’t know why people are bothered by what one. Chekov’s a very junior officer when Khan is on board, and consequently is assigned to the GRAVEYARD SHIFT. He and the other noobs get sent to head-cleaning duty whenever the ship is about to do anything that matters, and he encountered Khan while they both were wandering around the ship one afternoon.
[QUOTE]
[li]Hard time finding a lifeless rock.[/li][/QUOTE]
Planets with life are more common in the Trekverse than ours, and the Genesis team, wanting to avoid even the sniff of ethical impropriety, demanded one without so much as a microbe.
I’ll give you those.
I was going to argue those, but in the middle of the sentence my brain complained and I had to concede them. 
[QUOTE]
[li]The genesis device is stupid.[/li][/QUOTE]
Nah. Just standard tech magic.
What’s stupid is that it’s never followed up on. Because, even though it’s a failure as a terraforming device as the new planet is unstable, it’s a huge success as a weapon of mass destruction. But I’ll fanwank it as the Feds, Romulans, and Klingons banning the tech. Further: the bad press caused by the Federation seeming to have created such a horror is why they had to agree to the otherwise incomprehensive and categorically stupid treaty that prevented them from using cloaking tech when their enemies were allowed to keep it.
[QUOTE]
[li]Khan wants to steal a weapon that he can use to destroy a planet. He has one ship, what exactly is he gonna do with that device? His ship can already destroy a helpless world, a TOS ship can lay waste to a planet’s surface.[/li][/QUOTE]
I always assumed that Khan intended to create a paradise for himself and his fellows. He just wanted Kirk dead first.
[QUOTE]
[li]How the fuck does Khan know Klingon proverbs? Did Kirk leave him a radio?[/li][/QUOTE]
Kirk left him a computer with a full library bank to assist with staying alive. Whatever junior officer was assigned to prepariing it (probably Chekov–that’s when they met ) stripped out stuff like “how to make a shuttlecraft warp-capable enough to travel 5 light years” and “how to turn your communicator into a 2-shot phaser.” But he left in the cultural section because it was harmless, and Khan reads really fast.
They had loaders for the torpedoes because the ship was damaged and the automatic systems were offline; this is explicit in the narrative. As for the z-axis, it was more than Khan had never fought that way and overloked it. Experience IS better than genius some days.